Corn Trol?

Corn Trol?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:09 am

Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: WNY On: Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:33 am

So that's what they have been doing in their spare time.... :)
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: spc On: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:26 am

What? That ain't right. Say it isn't so. :o Great, now our cereal is going to triple in price. :(
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: bksaun On: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:33 am

Can I run a still with it? :cheers: :lol:

BK
bksaun
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid, Gentleman Janitor GJ-6RSU/ EFM 700
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503
Coal Size/Type: Pea Stoker/Bit, Pea or Nut Anthracite
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer/ EFM-Gentleman Janitor
Stove/Furnace Model: 503 Insert/ 700/GJ-62

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: xackley On: Sat Mar 15, 2008 9:53 am

The FR is in the Round Robin display, must be a v3.x feature. That sure would save a lot of button pushing when you want to see how hard the stove is working.
xackley
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sat Mar 15, 2008 10:57 am

Yes, the Coal-trol has been adapted to run corn fueled furnaces. Our initial sales deal is with LMF, but their furnace is of the same design as a number of other makers and we will be pursuing deals with them in due course. There are some differences in the display layouts and operation compared to the Coal-trol. Here's a some of them:

- FR is part of the round robin. This was done by request of LMF. In the first season of Coal-trol we also had the FR in the round robin, but removed it in the V2 software because it was something of a distraction and a novelty that wore off with most people we talked to. Because the Corn-trol is new we once again put it there, but it is hoped it can be removed there at some point in the near future too.

- No MAX setting. On the LMF furnaces there is no need for it.

- Restricted MIN range. Again for this furnace type there is only a certain range that makes sense.

- No IGN. No igniter setups for these beasts as of yet so the option was removed from the SETUP menu.

- No TBRN. No speed controled stoker/auger is necessary so we removed this option too.

- MANIGN added in extended ops menu. This triggers a small sequence of steps and resets carried out over 20 minutes or so to aid in lighting the fire.

- Rearranged motor outputs. We needed to make the combustion blower a speed controlled output and the auger control has no need to speed control. Other reasons too.

And there is much more. Some of the work and features of the corn software will make it into the next version of the Coal-trol, but most is specific for non-coal fuels and the LMF/Big-M furnace design in particular. And there has been quite a bit of work going into the Coal-trol specific features too over the past 1 1/4 years since V3 development began. So no worries, we haven't abandoned the Coal-trol in pursuit of greener pastures. Not by a long shot. :)
pvolcko
 

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: acesover On: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:28 am

Keep your korn dry boys, or at least try to, if not make some SHINE.
acesover
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Baker
Stove/Furnace Model: insert, modified

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: gambler On: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:42 pm

The corn-trol was not well recieved on the corn burning forum. Many had harsh words for Neil.

1 "$400, this thing must be flippin magic"

2 "With all due respect to the manufacturers of the corn-troll, I need to inform everyone that this modification is not recomended by LDJ for any of our appliances. Modifying any units from their manufactured state will void both the warranty and UL listing.
Once again, I can not speak to the fitness of this product. I can only make you aware of the dangers of modfying an appliance outside of it's manufactured specs."
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:16 pm

Yes, we did stir up a bit of a hornets nest over there. ;)

There were similiar statements made about Coal-trol when we started with the coal stoves. Actually, some still say those things. :D

It's just that its new and we haven't even demoed to the other furnace makers yet. With time and as we prove results with the LMF furnaces we hope the tone will turn around over there. Sadly those corn guys don't appear to place much stock in the success that's been seen on the coal stoves with Coal-trol.

The #2 quote is from a representative of LDJ, another maker of the same base design furnace as LMF, so he's probably looking to cast some doubt on his competitor's product. Alaska said the same thing to their customers back when we first started. I don't know if they still do or not. With the coal stoves it is usually a simple matter to install the coal-trol and there is no real legal basis for voiding a warranty on a motor or something else on the basis of installing ETL spec aftermarket equipment. That'd be like a car dealer voiding the warranty on a speaker or speaker mounting bracket because you installed an aftermarket CD player. There's no basis for it. They say it, but if push comes to shove, they have to honor the component warranty.

Similarly, I don't think LDJ could legally void warranty on a motor or other component due to the Corn-trol being properly installed. But installing the Corn-trol as aftermarket equipment is a bit more complicated than the Coal-trol and so there is a higher level of risk of screwing something up in the process and voiding due to actual cause.

Then again, I'm not a lawyer and may be completely wrong. :)
pvolcko
 

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: driz On: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:00 pm

What is the big deal with this thing? I can see it sings yankee doodle dandy but what makes it better than a standard thermostat or even a really cool setback like I have hooked to my Countryside. I found the setback really isn't necessary either as space heating a whole house doesn't lend itself that way. I get better results out of fan placement and speed using one or sometimes 2 box fans sitting on the floor to keep a draft moving. What does this do that a stat wired in with some cheap speaker wire do? Is this something specific to coal or just an edjumacated thermostat. :roll:
driz
 

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: gambler On: Sat Mar 29, 2008 10:50 pm

driz wrote:What is the big deal with this thing? I can see it sings yankee doodle dandy but what makes it better than a standard thermostat or even a really cool setback like I have hooked to my Countryside. I found the setback really isn't necessary either as space heating a whole house doesn't lend itself that way. I get better results out of fan placement and speed using one or sometimes 2 box fans sitting on the floor to keep a draft moving. What does this do that a stat wired in with some cheap speaker wire do? Is this something specific to coal or just an edjumacated thermostat. :roll:


I suppose it has to do with the fact that all coal stoves (except for Harmon DV) are controlled with manual controls and not a computer like most corn and pellet stoves are. What the coal-trol is, is the computer control that can be added to almost any coal stove. They have put the electronics in the t-stat instead of the stove.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:02 pm

It's more than a thermostat, the basic controls on stokers have to be adjusted manually. It's either on or off using the same settings. The Coal-Trol (or Corn-Trol) can adjust feed and burn rate dynamically to different conditions for a more economical use of the coal and keep the temperature swings to a minimum.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Corn Trol?

PostBy: pvolcko On: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:43 pm

Hi driz,

I'm not sure if you're asking about the Corn-trol or the Coal-trol (sorry, I'm not sure what a Countryside stove is or what it burns). I'll give the general rundown that applies to both.

For many people using the thermostat controls that stove manufacturers ship, as well as modern setback thermostats designed for "instant" on and off heating appliances, they get unstable temperature control. If they're using manual stove controls there are frequent adjustments to keep up with the changing conditions outside or else people make due with the highs and lows one gets without making the adjustments. With traditional thermostates we heard of and personally experienced temperature swings with fixed setpoints of up to 8 degrees or more throughout the day. So we designed a thermostat control that is designed to work specifically with solid fuel heating appliances, which make relatively slow changes in their heat delivery. The Coal-trol maintain the temperature to within +/- 1 degree F of setpoint.

Our control eliminates the 100% stoker output to idle output (with no in between) thrashing employed by traditional thermostat controls, by matching the stove's heat output to the heat loss of the house. We dynamically adjust the stove's heat output in a continuous fashion, just like a car's cruise control adjusts the output of the motor to match the incline of the road, the head/tail wind, and cruising speed you set. With this dynamic output matching comes the additional benefit of higher fuel efficiency. We estimate a minimum average fuel savings of 11% over most traditional thermostats installations and have anecdotal evidence of up to 25% in some cases.

Our controls also replace much of the extra electrical hardware traditional thermostat systems use: timers, 24VAC power supplies, complicated wiring. In many cases we replace either plenum/bonnet limit switches or rheostats that control convection fans/blowers, since we provide a speed controlled convection fan output on our control. On one of our models we offer a set of contacts that can be wired into the control circuit of an existing central forced air furnace so Coal-trol can turn the house blower on and off as necessary, in parallel with the furnace's thermostat controls. On OEM installations from the factory, some manufacturers have taken to removing manual stoker adjustments, such as control knobs and screws.

That's the basics. Some people are perfectly happy with what they have and don't see a point. We're happy for them and don't want to see anyone to try to fix a problem they aren't having by buying our controls. But there are many who do have these problems or are sick of frequently tending to their stove to maintain comfort, the Coal-trol is for them. It's also for stove manufacturers. Leisure Line, Hitzer, Keystoker, Reading, and LMF on the corn side all either offer our controls as standard or optional equipment on their stoves. There are many reasons for this, but ultimately it is because they and their customers see the value.

Our website, http://www.coaltroldigital.com, gets into more detail. Our user and installation manuals are available for download. Our contact information is there too, should you want to call and speak to us directly. There are also many threads on the forum here that delve into the details and hash out the glories :) and shortcomings of the Coal-trol. I encourage you to search around and read what all has been said. And of course, we're here to answer any other questions.

Sincerely,
Paul Volcko
Automation Correct LLC
http://www.coaltroldigital.com
pvolcko