John Sidney McCain

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: ktm rider On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:21 am

Devil5052 wrote: I cannot vote for a man who once was a heroic , straight-talking "Hands Acroos The Aisle" kind of guy.




When did McCain lose his Heroic status anyway?? when he got in the prsidential race? or when his popularity shot higher than either Dem candidate??? (see above poll results)
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:05 am

ktm rider wrote:
Devil5052 wrote: I cannot vote for a man who once was a heroic , straight-talking "Hands Acroos The Aisle" kind of guy.




When did McCain lose his Heroic status anyway?? when he got in the prsidential race? or when his popularity shot higher than either Dem candidate??? (see above poll results)



I guess my syntax was wrong...... Of course he still retains his heroic stature. My point is, heroic stature aside, he is not the same man he was many years ago. His mind, in my opinion, is not sharp enough any more to allow him to make the tough decisions that will keep my Grandsons safe for the next four years, & his weakness on economic issues alone (arguably the most important problem this country is facing) makes his candidacy untenable. (McCain's "senior moments" are going to haunt him, just like they did with Dole)
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:27 am

coalkirk wrote:By the way, if you read the story with the picture above, you will note they report the violence in Iraq is down 60% since last June, not on the rise as has been suggested by some here. The left will stop at nothing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.


Sorry it took so long to reply to your post but I know you couldn't wait to hear it

......"if you read the story with the picture above".........and If you actually "look" that at that picture, it says all that needs to be said about Iraq today. His "words" speak of increased safety in Iraq, yet his "attire" says just the opposite!.........It tell's you that Iraq is still so incredibly dangerous that a US Senator cannot make an unannounced, quick visit to even areas "controled" by our own military without wearing a bullet-proof vest & usually a helmet.( Did you ever see Winston Churchill or FDR wearing flak jackets when they visited Europe during WWII? Or even LBJ or Gen Westmoreland wearing them in Vietnam? ) Obviously this photo would be much more supportive of Sen. McCain's/Bush's position in re the oft-spoken reduced viloence levels in Iraq without the body armor, so the very fact that such body armor is still required every moment in Iraq says it all.



Editorial Comment:
The answer is that while overall violence may be down......So what?....It is still a very dangerous place & will continue to be so probably for the next 100 years. (if I was a U.S. GI on the ground in Iraq today, I would take little comfort in the knowledge that my chances of being blown-up today have been reduced from......say 20% to maybe 14%.....pick your own figures) We can expect a Sunni vs Shiite bloodbath whenever we decide to leave Iraq proper, so let's do it now & save our men from being the targets in an Iraqi civil war!
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:17 pm

John McCain is undoubtedly a hero for what he endured in North Vietnam. He has been likewise courageous as a Senator in pursuing his marquis causes of campaign finance reform, curtailing "earmarks" and other pork and, up until recently, being a strong voice against torture in all of its forms. But all that neither does nor should immunize him from examination as to his fitness to become President.

We've all known for years that he's been treated for melanoma. The current status and prognosis for that is extremely relevant, especially since he's already 71, because his VP choice could have a much greater chance to succeed him. And, as we've learned, the PTSD question is a serious, and open, one. We'll see if the "Straight Talk Express" responds openly on those issues.

When you run for President, you don't get a free pass. As you get closer, the scrutiny intensifies. There's nothing wrong with that.

Like when we discover that he needs Joe Lieberman whispering in his ear yesterday to remind him that Iran's a Shiia country and Al Qaeda is a Sunni jihadist group. Talk about a loop of film we'll be seeing this fall. :roll:
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: coalkirk On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:17 pm

Devil -
In response to McCain wearing body armor in Iraq. I don't think you'll find a picture of LBJ in Viet Nam strolling down the street anywhere. All his visits and photos are on huge US bases which were heavily protected. As far as FDR and Churchill, That was a very different conflict where there was a clearly defined front and a clearly defined enemy who wore uniforms. I don't hink they went strolling around in a hostile area. In Iraq, there is no front and anywhere can be a hostile area with the type of conflict there.
Churchill as I'm sure you know said there was nothing more exciting than being shot at without result. :)
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:14 pm

coalkirk wrote:Devil -
In response to McCain wearing body armor in Iraq. I don't think you'll find a picture of LBJ in Viet Nam strolling down the street anywhere. All his visits and photos are on huge US bases which were heavily protected. As far as FDR and Churchill, That was a very different conflict where there was a clearly defined front and a clearly defined enemy who wore uniforms. I don't hink they went strolling around in a hostile area. In Iraq, there is no front and anywhere can be a hostile area with the type of conflict there.
Churchill as I'm sure you know said there was nothing more exciting than being shot at without result. :)



Not sure where that pic of Sen. McCain was taken my friend Coalkirk but I'll be willing to bet it wasn't anywhere in downtown Bagdad. More probably, just like LBJ in Vietnam, it was taken in the most secure area we could create in Iraq, under US control.. Be honest now, don't you think photos of him in body armor speak more loudly than his words of reasurance?
Another Churchill quote that I'm sure you are familiar with & , in my opinion summarizes this admintstration's & Sen McCain's staements on Iraq:
Politics is the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Winston Churchill
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:03 pm

I wouldn't read too much into that body armor, hell you got people walking around in major cities in the US with body armor on and I'm not talking about the cops either but businessman in tailored suits. It's a precautionary measure, nothing more.
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:10 pm

Richard S. wrote:I wouldn't read too much into that body armor, hell you got people walking around in major cities in the US with body armor on and I'm not talking about the cops either but businessman in tailored suits. It's a precautionary measure, nothing more.


Sorry Richard but I don't ever remember seeing anyone casualy strolling down Beacon St. in Boston wearing a flak jacket & Kevlar helmet. (like McCain usualy has on his head in Iraq) Besides, knowing you are trying to convince voters in the US that it's safer in Iraq, would you want that visual image sent, unless you had real good reason to fear being attacked?
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:11 pm

Devil5052 wrote:
coalkirk wrote:Devil -
In response to McCain wearing body armor in Iraq. I don't think you'll find a picture of LBJ in Viet Nam strolling down the street anywhere. All his visits and photos are on huge US bases which were heavily protected. As far as FDR and Churchill, That was a very different conflict where there was a clearly defined front and a clearly defined enemy who wore uniforms. I don't hink they went strolling around in a hostile area. In Iraq, there is no front and anywhere can be a hostile area with the type of conflict there.
Churchill as I'm sure you know said there was nothing more exciting than being shot at without result. :)



Not sure where that pic of Sen. McCain was taken my friend Coalkirk but I'll be willing to bet it wasn't anywhere in downtown Bagdad. More probably, just like LBJ in Vietnam, it was taken in the most secure area we could create in Iraq, under US control.. Be honest now, don't you think photos of him in body armor speak more loudly than his words of reasurance?
Another Churchill quote that I'm sure you are familiar with & , in my opinion summarizes this admintstration's & Sen McCain's staements on Iraq:
Politics is the ability to foretell what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month and next year. And to have the ability afterwards to explain why it didn't happen.
Winston Churchill


Most secure area created in Iraq...highly doubt it...extremely dangerous area in Iraq...highly doubt it. Opinion about the picture, if it was extremely safe...soldiers and everyone else wouldn't be wearing the body armor. We have very large somewhat safe camps over there where there are a large amount of government civilian employees and civilian contractors work on the large amounts of equipment we have over there. Those camps have their fair share of shelters for protection. IMHO the flak jacket he is wearing was probably given to him when he boarded whatever vehicle (probably the helo in the back ground...MH-60??) that was used to transport him to that location. Is the area safe where he is at...I don't doubt that...the General standing next to him is probably a much larger target than John McCain in that country and I am sure that there is probably a plethora of protection in the area...not just for McCain.

As for downtown Baghdad...doubt it...but I wouldn't rule out somewhere "close to" Baghdad.
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 6:13 pm

I don't go close to downtown Wilkes Barre without my kevlar...





just joking....that is funny though. :)
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:14 pm

BugsyR wrote:Most secure area created in Iraq...highly doubt it...extremely dangerous area in Iraq...highly doubt it. Opinion about the picture, if it was extremely safe...soldiers and everyone else wouldn't be wearing the body armor. We have very large somewhat safe camps over there where there are a large amount of government civilian employees and civilian contractors work on the large amounts of equipment we have over there. Those camps have their fair share of shelters for protection. IMHO the flak jacket he is wearing was probably given to him when he boarded whatever vehicle (probably the helo in the back ground...MH-60??) that was used to transport him to that location. Is the area safe where he is at...I don't doubt that...the General standing next to him is probably a much larger target than John McCain in that country and I am sure that there is probably a plethora of protection in the area...not just for McCain.

As for downtown Baghdad...doubt it...but I wouldn't rule out somewhere "close to" Baghdad.



Hi Mike,

This statement..."IMHO the flak jacket he is wearing was probably given to him when he boarded whatever vehicle (probably the helo in the back ground...MH-60??")"........I tend to agree with, but that only makes the current safety situation in Iraq even less safe than wearing a flak jacket on the streets...... It says that the situation is still so dire that you are not safe traveling anywhere in Iraq by any means of transporattion. Hardly the "rosy" picture of increaed safety that this admin. & Sen. McCain are trying to sell!
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:04 pm

hey Richard,
I agree with some of what you are trying to say but you know when I hear the heads talking (no matter what political party) I tend to see it all as a political ploy (especially right now). I don't hear McCain saying it is "safe" in Iraq I hear him saying it is "safer" in Iraq. Safer as in yesterday or last month, I don't think so, safer than last year...I believe so.
I've been watching and reading the past few days and wanted to add a few times but I decided not to. Just forming opinions. One opinion I have formed though after reading some on Obama's, Clinton's, and McCain's websites is that if McCain is elected and he eventually is allowed to start pulling troops...he is going to look like a savior. If Obama or Clinton make it and they aren't allowed to follow through with campaign promises of pulling troops, how will they explain it? One safety net they have left themselves with on their issues about Iraq is that one word... "but".
My other opinion, if they can't do what they want to do, they can always blame Bush.
I've said it before...we've been there since before 1991...we've never left. Pull back troops...I can see that happening...pull out troops...I won't believe it until it happens...IMO we are going to be there a long time just like McCain hints.
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:09 pm

Crap...forgot one more off the wall opinion.
Flak jacket...I'd wear one... if I was there.
In the USA...they don't need a flak jacket...they are surrounded by the secret service. Secret Service is their flak jacket...I'll even go further...I wouldn't doubt it if the past few Presidents wore body armor of some type in a couple cities in the USA during visits.
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:22 pm

I'm pretty sure everyone that goes in a chopper there is going to be in a flack jacket or they won't be getting on it.
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Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:46 pm

BugsyR wrote:Crap...forgot one more off the wall opinion.
Flak jacket...I'd wear one... if I was there.
.


So would I.....I wasn't writing to critisize Sen. McCain's wearing one. Quite the contrary, anyone in as dangerous a place for Anericans as Iraq would have to be suicidal not to wear body armor......That is exactly my point. They are trying to convince us that Iraq is not as dangerous a place as we can see that it is! They are simply lying to the US voters about the real situation in Iraq.............again!
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