John Sidney McCain

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: stockingfull On: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:36 am

The bad news: he has a "volcanic temper" and holds grudges, which many in his own party believe raise questions about his temperament to be President.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/19/AR2008041902224.html?nav=rss_politics

The good news: his temper appears to pre-date his imprisonment in North Vietnam and, in a detailed 5-page article, the Washington Post has not used the word "PTSD."

Let's see if Stephanopoulos does this morning. :roll:
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: spc On: Mon May 05, 2008 8:32 pm

McCain Declines Secret Service, Dares Assassins To Try Something: :funny:


http://www.theonion.com/content//node/79055?utm_source=embedded_video_2
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Cyber36 On: Fri May 09, 2008 12:10 pm

Voting for McCain is keeping things in Washington "status quo", I.M.H.O. Do you really want that? I think this country is teetering on the brink now. Four more years of this?? Ron Paul really isn't the answer either, BUT he's the best choice for the given few. And to think some people won't vote for him because they think they're "throwing their vote away". That's just plain assinine. The ONLY thing Paul has against him is that I've heard his name before. In today's climate, that means he's probably already poisoned...........
Cyber36
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Marathon/Logwood


Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri May 09, 2008 1:53 pm

McCain Pushed Land Swap That Benefits Backer
A lone rafter floats on Lynx Lake in the Prescott National Forest near Prescott, Ariz. The land exchange will expand the forest. (By Les Stukenberg -- The Daily Courier)


PRESCOTT, Ariz. -- Sen. John McCain championed legislation that will let an Arizona rancher trade remote grassland and ponderosa pine forest here for acres of valuable federally owned property that is ready for development, a land swap that now stands to directly benefit one of his top presidential campaign fundraisers].

Ful Story: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03494.html


Definetly would be Bush's 3rd term!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: spc On: Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:49 pm

Incredible McCain Girl :o

spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:31 pm

Speaking of John Sideny McCain, how smart was it for him to say that when our troops will come home from Iraq was "Not too important"??


(his saying that it's casualties that is important is like saying that it's ok to get Cancer.......It's the dying that's the bad part :wacko: )

Seems to me you can't fight a war (they claim we are fighting the War On Terror in Iraq) without sustaining casualties...but I guess I just don't understand :notsure:
Last edited by Richard S. on Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: <removed dead link>
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:51 am

spc wrote:Incredible McCain Girl :o


GREAT vid!

God, I hope when it happens, it's in jello.... 8-)
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:50 pm

Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain

by Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.

When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in 1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus about 150 midshipmen to a company. As fortune would have it, John, a First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President!

John was a wild man. He was funny, with a quick wit and he was intelligent. But he was intent on breaking every USNA regulation in our 4 inch thick USNA Regulations book. And I believe he must have come as close to his goal as any midshipman who ever attended the Academy. John had me "coming around" to his room frequently during my plebe year. And on one occasion he took me with him to escape "over the wall" in the dead of night. He had a taxi cab waiting for us that took us to a bar some 7 miles away. John had a few beers, but forbid me to drink (watching out for me I guess) and made me drink cokes. I could tell many other midshipman stories about John that year and he unbelievably managed to graduate though he spent the majority of his first class year on restriction for the stuff he did get caught doing. In fact he barely managed to graduate, standing 5th from the bottom of his 800 man graduating class. I and many others have speculated that the main reason he did graduate was because his father was an Admiral, and also his grandfather, both U.S. Naval Academy graduates.

People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 ½ years later, so he was a POW for 5 ½ years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW.
John's treatment as a POW:

1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his policies was more pragmatic. They realized we were worth a lot as bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW's for their country. A damn good trade in my opinion! But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

2) John was badly injured when he was shot down. Both arms were broken and he had other wounds from his ejection. Unfortunately this was often the case - new POW's arriving with broken bones and serious combat injuries. Many died from their wounds. Medical care was non-existent to rudimentary. Relief from pain was almost never given and often the wounds were used as an available way to torture the POW. Because John's father was the Naval Commander in the Pacific theater, he was exploited with TV interviews while wounded. These film clips have now been widely seen. But it must be known that many POW's suffered similarly, not just John. And many were similarly exploited for political propaganda.

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

4) John was awarded a Silver Star and Purple Heart for heroism and wounds in combat. This heroism has been played up in the press and in his various political campaigns. But it should be known that there were approximately 600 military POW's in Vietnam. Among all of us, decorations awarded have recently been totaled to the following: Medals of Honor - 8, Service Crosses - 42, Silver Stars - 590, Bronze Stars - 958 and Purple Hearts - 1,249. John certainly performed courageously and well. But it must be remembered that he was one hero among many - not uniquely so as his campaigns would have people believe.

John McCain served his time as a POW with great courage, loyalty and tenacity. More that 600 of us did the same. After our repatriation a census showed that 95% of us had been tortured at least once. The Vietnamese were quite democratic about it. There were many heroes in North Vietnam. I saw heroism every day there. And we motivated each other to endure and succeed far beyond what any of us thought we had in ourselves. Succeeding as a POW is a group sport, not an individual one. We all supported and encouraged each other to survive and succeed. John knows that. He was not an individual POW hero. He was a POW who surmounted the odds with the help of many comrades, as all of us did.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years. I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button. It is also disappointing to see him take on and support Bush's war in Iraq, even stating we might be there for another 100 years. For me John represents the entrenched and bankrupt policies of Washington-as-usual. The past 7 years have proven to be disastrous for our country. And I believe John's views on war, foreign policy, economics, environment, health care, education, national infrastructure and other important areas are much the same as those of the Bush administration.

I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican. On some issues he is a maverick. But his voting record is far to the right. I fear for his nominations to our Supreme Court, and the consequent continuing loss of individual freedoms, especially regarding moral and religious issues. John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately. I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he hates that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don't see that John is the "straight talk express" he markets himself to be.

Senator John Sidney McCain, III is a remarkable man who has made enormous personal achievements. And he is a man that I am proud to call a fellow POW who "Returned With Honor." That's our POW motto. But since many of you keep asking what I think of him, I've decided to write it out. In short, I think John Sidney McCain, III is a good man, but not someone I will vote for in the upcoming election to be our President of the United States.


Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

Doctor Phillip Butler is a 1961 graduate of the United States Naval Academy and a former light-attack carrier pilot. In 1965 he was shot down over North Vietnam where he spent eight years as a prisoner of war. He is a highly decorated combat veteran who was awarded two Silver Stars, two Legion of Merits, two Bronze Stars and two Purple Heart medals.
After his repatriation in 1973 he earned a Ph.D. in sociology from the University of California at San Diego and became a Navy Organizational Effectiveness consultant. He completed his Navy career in 1981 as a professor of management at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California. He is now a peace and justice activist with Veterans for Peace.
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:56 pm

There you have it!...Let the Republicans nominate Phillip Butler as their nominee! (Obviously a better man than McCain)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:04 pm

stockingfull wrote:
Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain

by Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

...


Devil5052 wrote:There you have it!...Let the Republicans nominate Phillip Butler as their nominee! (Obviously a better man than McCain)


Thanks for the posts...I was actually starting to consider Obama :doh:


Looks like I'm definitely back to supporting McCain!!!!!!!
Keep them coming...I personally need as much help as possible to stay on the "right" side of the fence! :lol:
BugsyR
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:25 pm

BugsyR wrote:Thanks for the posts...I was actually starting to consider Obama :doh:


Looks like I'm definitely back to supporting McCain!!!!!!!




May I ask what in the above posts bolstered your decision to back McCain, Mike?
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:15 pm

Devil5052 wrote:May I ask what in the above posts bolstered your decision to back McCain, Mike?


Yes...as a matter of fact I will answer that...

Use someone's heroic military past in order to try to slam them politically? Just made me even more proud of McCain.

Come on...really?!?...that article really makes you question McCain politically??? You use Swiftboat all the time! What's the difference?

Personally when I re-read it, it sounds like Butler is jealous of McCain's accomplishments...almost like whining!!

Some other things, especially out of one paragraph....
"But his voting record is far to the right." I don't agree. And what about Obama? Far left or Far right?

"especially regarding moral and religious issues." Rev. Jeremiah Wright...personally I don't see any example of Christianity in that guy yet Obama use to...religiously.

"John is not a religious person, but he has taken every opportunity to ally himself with some really obnoxious and crazy fundamentalist ministers lately." uuuuhhhhh yeah...see above IRT Rev. Wright

"I was also disappointed to see him cozy up to Bush because I know he hates that man. He disingenuously and famously put his arm around the guy, even after Bush had intensely disrespected him with lies and slander. So on these and many other instances, I don't see that John is the "straight talk express" he markets himself to be."
Wasn't it sweet to hear Obama say all those nice things about Hillary after she was done? Not to mention that she may be our next Vice President (I've been away from the news and I didn't see it posted here...Obama hasn't selected a running mate yet has he?)

I have issues with both McCain and Obama...the thing is I see more truth/honesty coming from McCain and I see the Democratic Party digging for anything possible to smear him but it looks to me like it is seriously digging (i.e. "4 years of McCain is 4 more years of Bush" that's a good one... :lol: ).
I have "wishful" thinking that Obama might be on the up and up. "Wishful" ...not believable.

Oh yeah...McCain is a Vet...which means he actually had the cojones to join the military. The way I see it is that if the article was posted on this site by a Vet...it would carry more weight with me and I probably would have PM'd the Vet for more info regarding the article. But I firmly believe it was posted by a non-Vet which means there are deceased Vets that Mr. Butler mentions in his article that died supporting the non-Vet's right for freedom of speech in order to post that article. In other words, the poster of said article has smaller cojones than McCain and is attempting to smear a Heroic Vet politically using the Heroic Vet's military past...instead of using the Heroic Vet's political past. Sort of like Swiftboaters...but not like Swiftboaters because correct me if I am wrong but the Swiftboaters were....Vets (...with cojones)?
(By the way....I was not a Kerry basher...I actually have respect for him, the only problem I had with him is the way he disgraced his uniform...in my opinion)

One last reminder...don't blame my education for this response and post...I don't have any.
BugsyR
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:34 pm

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question Mike. We are all obviously entitled to our opinions & I don't necessarily take Butler's writing as the gospel either but........maybe what he says is true?!? In any case, I could never support the John McCain of 2008 ( I could have supported the very different McCain of 2000) who has turned into a major flip-flopper, imo. (on right wing religious zealots that he used to oppose, the backing of Bush's policies in re prisoner interrogation techniques (inexcusable for a former POW himself), switching to now back the Bush tax cuts that he had opposed, switching to now support offshore drilling tbhat he had opposed, his stance on continuing this war in Iraq ....the list goes on & on....In the words of the old TV game show: "Will the real John McCain please stand up.")
I personally do not hold Obama liable for the words of his pastor or anyone else. They were not his (Obama's) words. Do you hold McCain liable for the hateful words of the pastor that he sought support from? (forget his name...but the one who said basically that Hitler was doing God's work)
Any man who aligns himself so closely with GW Bush, after the last eight years, does not deserve to sit in the White House for the next four. (again, obviously just my opinion)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: BugsyR On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:10 pm

Devil5052 wrote:Thanks for taking the time to answer my question Mike. We are all obviously entitled to our opinions & I don't necessarily take Butler's writing as the gospel either but........maybe what he says is true?!? In any case, I could never support the John McCain of 2008 ( I could have supported the very different McCain of 2000) who has turned into a major flip-flopper, imo. (on right wing religious zealots that he used to oppose, the backing of Bush's policies in re prisoner interrogation techniques (inexcusable for a former POW himself), switching to now back the Bush tax cuts that he had opposed, switching to now support offshore drilling tbhat he had opposed, his stance on continuing this war in Iraq ....the list goes on & on....In the words of the old TV game show: "Will the real John McCain please stand up.")
I personally do not hold Obama liable for the words of his pastor or anyone else. They were not his (Obama's) words. Do you hold McCain liable for the hateful words of the pastor that he sought support from? (forget his name...but the one who said basically that Hitler was doing God's work)
Any man who aligns himself so closely with GW Bush, after the last eight years, does not deserve to sit in the White House for the next four. (again, obviously just my opinion)


I assume that a lot of his writing was true...I just don't care for it being used the way it was politically (same as Swiftboat). I still see a lot of whining in his article. I think he got hazed one too many times as a Plebe. As for McCain's Academy performance, if that is true which I assume it is, then McCain was the type of Naval Academy Officer I would've killed to work for. Butler sounds like the tight ass who didn't take risks....or....just a whiner. What Butler does state in his article...if you read between the lines...McCain had cojones....huge ones.

Your opinions on the other hand, and the way you just wrote them, carry more meaning, imo, compared to Butlers article. Also, I to do not hold Obama responsible for his ex-pastor's crap. I just used that as an example to point something out in Butler's article. As for switching policies, I hate it also, especially when they change their minds about something I like...such is life. I hope Obama or McCain, whoever gets elected, has the fortitude to change their minds every once in a while and be able to say "Sorry America, I believe I made a mistake." As we all know, my current President doesn't know how to do that.
BugsyR
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K

Re: John Sidney McCain

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:52 pm

BugsyR wrote:I hope Obama or McCain, whoever gets elected, has the fortitude to change their minds every once in a while and be able to say "Sorry America, I believe I made a mistake." As we all know, my current President doesn't know how to do that.



Here...Here! I think you & I finally agree on something political! :D
(It really would be refreshing to have a politician just come out & say he changed his mind, & explain why. What they do instead is pretend that they "always" favored their current position....until someone finds a video-tape of them saying exactly the opposite.........last year!....& then they goto the old tried & true fall back line, that what they said: "Was taken out of context!")
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000