Puff the Magic Glenwood No. 8

warminmn · Post by **warminmn** » Mon. Sep. 21, 2015 11:30 pm

The only super major puff back I ever had was with a fuel oil space heater I was lighting. I thought I had it lit and opened the door, a lot of smoke came out of the door. I knew what was coming and I think I shoved the door forward as I backed away. It blew the door open and the pipe was blown off. I had to quickly reattach the pipe and it was not a fun experience.

I read on her about puffbacks with coal but I had a lot more problems with puffbacks burning wood, and of course the fuel oil one I mentioned.

wilsons woodstoves · Post by **wilsons woodstoves** » Tue. Sep. 22, 2015 8:41 am

Years ago when pellet stoves came out I got a bag while cleaning out a house. I hat a small cyl .coal stove hooked up and filled it with pellets. I guess it was smoldering , I opened the feed door and the top cover blew and the door blew out of my hand. that was my worst blow back. There were others through the years
wilson

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Tue. Sep. 22, 2015 9:04 am

I've only had puff backs when I installed a distributor 180 degrees out of time.

It was late at night and I was working outdoors. I was hurrying to get a new cam shaft installed. As I was cranking the engine over to start it, It was back firing and lighting up the open element Cal Custom air cleaner like it was the Fire Island light house.

The back fires ruptured the power valve's rubber diaphragm in the Holley double pumper four barrel carburetor. That sent raw gas pouring down the carburetor's throats. Then, instead of backfires, it started having muffler explosions (what most people mistakenly call back fires).

The flames were shooting out of both mufflers - located under the front seats (no tail pipes on the car) with enough force to slightly lift the car. And it was lighting up the entire area under and around the car.

If a stove can do the same thing, I'm glad I've been spared the experience !

Paul

BlueMountains · Post by **BlueMountains** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 5:25 am

We got the stove pipe fixed and back together!

I am still having puffing occur, we have tried closing all the primary and secondary air control dampers and every 10-20 seconds it puffs out of the top crown where it attatches. Seriously starting to make my house smell like a campfire. damper closed, damper open doesnt seem to matter.

Blue

blrman07 · Post by **blrman07** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 6:09 am

I haven't read this whole thread but by the way do you have a manometer to measure the draft without the stove going?

If you do what are your readings while the stove is at rest and during different stages during light off. This surely sounds like draft. If you chimney is drafting good it should be able to suck all the smoke you can generate with that stove.

Personally Momma would relieve me of parts if I had a stove that did that.

An aside the parts I'm talking about is the stove itself.

Seriously, check your draft with a manometer with the stove at rest and fired up and let us know what it is.

SWPaDon · Post by **SWPaDon** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 6:31 am

blrman07 wrote:I haven't read this whole thread but by the way do you have a manometer to measure the draft without the stove going?

If you do what are your readings while the stove is at rest and during different stages during light off. This surely sounds like draft. If you chimney is drafting good it should be able to suck all the smoke you can generate with that stove.

Personally Momma would relieve me of parts if I had a stove that did that.

An aside the parts I'm talking about is the stove itself.

Seriously, check your draft with a manometer with the stove at rest and fired up and let us know what it is.

I agree with the Reverend. I had that problem when I was getting down drafts years ago. A properly placed cap ( I had to adjust the height several times ) on my chimney fixed the issue.

Pancho · Post by **Pancho** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 6:42 am

BlueMountains wrote:We got the stove pipe fixed and back together!

I am still having puffing occur, we have tried closing all the primary and secondary air control dampers and every 10-20 seconds it puffs out of the top crown where it attatches. Seriously starting to make my house smell like a campfire. damper closed, damper open doesnt seem to matter.

Blue

What is the temp outside?.
Is this occurring on startup or after the stove gets hot?.
When you say 'damper closed, damper open doesnt seem to matter'....are you talking MPD?.

Primaries should be open, secondary's closed. MPD barely shut once hot.

BlueMountains · Post by **BlueMountains** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 6:53 am

Poncho,

Im refereing to the primary and secondary, it gets plenty of air with the primary and secondary closed. It doesnt seem to matter if we close the pipe damper down in baseburner or have it in direct draft with the pipe damper open. It still puffs out smoke every 10-20 seconds or so.

I know these stoves are not totally air tight from factory because just the crown lid alone doesnt fit.

blrman07 · Post by **blrman07** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 7:32 am

I got some coffee, scrolled back and read the entire thread. If I read this correctly your burning wood,,,, with the secondary and primary dampers closed and relying on the stove to suck air in from the factory seals not being good? Did I read that correctly?

Lets get some basics going here......

1. Don't operate your stove in BB mode until this is settled out. My Vigilant 2310 does not like burning wood in the "secondary" or BB mode. Don't jump, I know a 2310 is not a BB but it does operate in a "secondary" path mode for more heat extraction.

2. If you are indeed starting and trying to burn your fire with the primary and secondary ports closed down your fire may be starving for air and it will suck in air wherever it can get it. When it reaches the right mixture you have minor explosions of unconsumed combustible gasses [smoke] over pressurizing the stove and poof. Remember that smoke is nothing more than unburned hydrocarbons that the stove will spit out when it ignites and changes the draft from negative to positive. It spits out the smoke from every unsealed joint and the process repeats. Hence the puffing.

3. Get that Magnahelix installed. Measure your draft before you start the stove and record that number.

4. Open the primary and secondary and any MPD wide open. With everything open you should still have a measurable draft at your smoke pipe. Remember that the draft is created by the chimney, not the stove. Make sure that your BB dampers are closed. Lite a small HOT wood fire and keep it small and HOT.....keep the primary and secondaries open. See what happens. Add small stuff slowly and work your way up slowly to the bigger splits. Make sure that they are burning solid before closing anything up. Slowly close down the primary and leave the secondary and MPD wide open. Measure your draft at each step and record it. You should have no puffing whatsoever if your draft is sufficient and you have the right amount of air getting to the burn.

A reiteration from the Dirty Harry movie....."A mans gots to know his draft."

Post by **Lightning** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 7:43 am

I believe it's a combination of poor draft coupled with a rich fuel/air mixture in the stove. Make the flue gas path as easy as possible by adjusting pipe damper's in that favor. Then my next move would be to close primary air and open secondary air.

Just for the record, that stove needs work before burning anthracite if it can breath that well with the primary and secondary air closed.

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 7:47 am

Blue,
Are you certain that the chimney is clear of any obstruction? If there is no screen on top, this is the time of year critters like to build nests in chimneys.

More than once I've had to clear leaf nests that squirrels stuffed-up the chimney with, before I could start the stove for the season.

If it's partially blocked that's like having the MPD closed. You'll never get enough heat volume going up the chimney to have a good draft going.

Paul

Pancho · Post by **Pancho** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 7:59 am

BlueMountains wrote:Poncho,

Im refereing to the primary and secondary, it gets plenty of air with the primary and secondary closed.

No, wood requires more air. Your primaries shouldn't be closed.

It doesnt seem to matter if we close the pipe damper down in baseburner or have it in direct draft with the pipe damper open. It still puffs out smoke every 10-20 seconds or so.

How long after startup are you putting it in BB mode and making damper adjustments?. Also, and again, what is the outside temp?.

I know these stoves are not totally air tight from factory because just the crown lid alone doesnt fit.

This is true but all air coming in is not equal. You want your primary air coming in from below the grates/wood plate. If the stove/chimney isn't hot and you choke it down, you will get the problem you are having. If the stove/chimney is hot and THERE ISN'T a blockage in the chimney, the stove should be in negative pressure meaning no smoke coming out (it's all going up the chimney as it should be).

Not to beat a dead horse, but if it's warm out (in the 60's), establishing a good draft can be a chore in an 'ok' drafting chimney.

H'bout this.....take us through the startup procedure with details.

Pancho · Post by **Pancho** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 8:03 am

Sunny Boy wrote:Blue,
Are you certain that the chimney is clear of any obstruction? If there is no screen on top, this is the time of year critters like to build nests in chimneys.

More than once I've had to clear leaf nests that squirrels stuffed-up the chimney with, before I could start the stove for the season.

If it's partially blocked that's like having the MPD closed. You'll never get enough heat volume going up the chimney to have a good draft going.

Paul

I once had to pull a dehydrated mallard duck from a buddies uncapped chimney. Dunno what that crazy duck was thinking but he turned into the ultimate MPD.

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 8:04 am

Lightning wrote:I believe it's a combination of poor draft coupled with a rich fuel/air mixture in the stove. Make the flue gas path as easy as possible by adjusting pipe damper's in that favor. Then my next move would be to close primary air and open secondary air.

Just for the record, that stove needs work before burning anthracite if it can breath that well with the primary and secondary air closed.

Lee,
There's air tight and then there's AIR_TIGHT. Don't think of the antique stoves version of being "air tight" is like that of some modern stoves. The antique stoves never seal 100% like a fully gasketed stove.

With his #8, the doors and the top round cover don't have gaskets. And the top round cover's pivot hook fits loosely in a through-hole in the stove top,. Then there's the permanently open series of eleven small holes under the loading door that constantly feed secondary air to the gas ring around the top of the fire pot. However, the antiques are designed to work very well with that small amount of air leakage.

You can't shut them down quickly by closing everything up and starving them of air. If you have to put the fire out quickly, you have to bury the fire with a bucket of sand.

Paul

Sunny Boy · Post by **Sunny Boy** » Wed. Sep. 23, 2015 8:06 am

Pancho wrote:
BlueMountains wrote:Poncho,

Im refereing to the primary and secondary, it gets plenty of air with the primary and secondary closed.
No, wood requires more air. Your primaries shouldn't be closed.

It doesnt seem to matter if we close the pipe damper down in baseburner or have it in direct draft with the pipe damper open. It still puffs out smoke every 10-20 seconds or so.
How long after startup are you putting it in BB mode and making damper adjustments?. Also, and again, what is the outside temp?.

I know these stoves are not totally air tight from factory because just the crown lid alone doesnt fit.
This is true but all air coming in is not equal. You want your primary air coming in from below the grates/wood plate. If the stove/chimney isn't hot and you choke it down, you will get the problem you are having. If the stove/chimney is hot and THERE ISN'T a blockage in the chimney, the stove should be in negative pressure meaning no smoke coming out (it's all going up the chimney as it should be).

Not to beat a dead horse, but if it's warm out (in the 60's), establishing a good draft can be a chore in an 'ok' drafting chimney.

H'bout this.....take us through the startup procedure with details.

Especially tough with a stove in the basement. Isn't that where this one is ?

Paul