Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

LsFarm · By: **LsFarm** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:55 am

No, I read the articles in archived newspapers from Pennsylvania.. some of which can be found in the History forum..

And if you thought about it,, inventions are not created when a need does not exist... so why are there CO detectors, and smoke detectors if people didn't die from CO or fires..??

CO detectors protect families from accidents: [Quote]:
People have them to help prevent an accident, not so they can turn their brain off. I'm not sure how this LL Pioneer thread got on this direction, but your comment is totally asinine. [UnQuote]

the quote pretty much sums it up. And even one senseless death is too many.

Greg L

spc · By: **spc** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:16 am

roadking wrote:Also any comments on Coaltrol will be a help also Dave

Coaltrol is a set it & forget it controller, very user friendly. All I do with my LL Pioneer is empty the ash pan & fill the hopper. It should be standard equipment on all brand stokers.

coalstoves · By: **coalstoves** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:34 am

LsFarm wrote:And if you thought about it,, inventions are not created when a need does not exist... so why are there CO detectors, and smoke detectors if people didn't die from CO or fires..??

Greg L

I wonder how many times a furnace or coal stove that didn't appear to be operating properly was over looked or not dealt with cause hey what the heck the alarms not going off.

As far as needing inventions go American corporations and worst of all Advertisers and Marketing gurus are experts at manufacturing a need and supplying a product but the country has come to love being spoon fed bullshit as long as we can work and think less.

Needless to say I embrace a simpler more practical, older style of thinking and a life that is not as dependent on gadgets to separate me from the realities and dangers of my life.

For The Record
I would never advocate not using a CO detector

PS
I let that ASININE comment slide you should too

Wood'nCoal · By: **Wood'nCoal** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:08 am

coalstoves wrote:
LsFarm wrote:And if you thought about it,, inventions are not created when a need does not exist... so why are there CO detectors, and smoke detectors if people didn't die from CO or fires..??

Greg L

I wonder how many times a furnace or coal stove that didn't appear to be operating properly was over looked or not dealt with cause hey what the heck the alarms not going off.

As far as needing inventions go American corporations and worst of all Advertisers and Marketing gurus are experts at manufacturing a need and supplying a product but the country has come to love being spoon fed bullshit as long as we can work and think less.

Needless to say I embrace a simpler more practical, older style of thinking and a life that is not as dependent on gadgets to separate me from the realities and dangers of my life.

For The Record
I would never advocate not using a CO detector

PS
I let that ASININE comment slide you should too

I can see your point about a business manufacturing a need for a product that they supply. In the case of CO and smoke detectors, however, pointing out that fact is absurd, untold number of people have been sickened and killed by carbon monoxide because there were no CO detectors. Many older stoves were cast iron and bolted together, unless the seams in the iron were properly sealed at all times a leaky stove was a very real possibility, which could be dangerous even in a drafty house. Also remember not everyone was inclined to follow proper maintenance procedures, many people were just not inclined towards it, or just didn't know any better.

coalstoves · By: **coalstoves** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:27 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:I can see your point about a business manufacturing a need for a product that they supply. In the case of CO and smoke detectors, however untold number of people have been sickened and killed by carbon monoxide because there were no CO detectors.

I agree that is why the statement / disclaimer is part of my thoughts on the subject .

For The Record
I would never advocate not using a CO detector

Just a bit Old school or just plain old, I burned Coal fer many years before effective affordable plastic made in a foreign country CO detectors were even imaginable.

Dallas · By: **Dallas** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:56 am

It appears to me, that there are a few things in this conversation, which have not been addressed.

Years ago, in "coal country", everybody burned coal, everybody knew how to burn coal, everybody knew how to burn coal safely, although, I'm sure there were those who didn't. I'm only guessing and trying to recall, but I'd say, most of the CO deaths were elderly folks, who couldn't clean their stoves or chimneys, nor had enough money to hire someone to do it.

There were many common practices, in those early years, which were used without ill fate, but today could most likely be fatal. As an example, when dampening down the kitchen stove for the evening, or in these warm months, the stove lids were tipped open to reduce the draft through the coal. Another critical part of the proper stove operation, was the Manual Pipe Damper ... without it, the fire would most assuredly overheat, creating a hazard more feared than the CO, which would be the house burning down.

The big difference between then and now, the coal burners then, were experienced. The coal burners now, very well, could have no experience ... coupled with poor common sense.

While smoke and CO detectors are certainly a valued protection, they are even more necessary in today's inexperienced environment. Even the tight houses, probably increase their need.

"IMHO"

gambler · By: **gambler** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:25 am

coalstoves wrote:I see so we have improved our homes enough to make them dangerous

I would have to agree with this statement because in mans quest to conserve heat and be more comfortable he has developed ways of insulating his dwelling to achive this. But in the process he has created an air tight structure that lends itself to problems with mold, radon gas and CO all of which can be dangerous and life threatening. Also years ago they did not have the means to test for such problems in the homes or people and when someone died they just chaulked it up to natural causes.

LsFarm · By: **LsFarm** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:02 pm

coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .

So what was the purpose of this comment anyway??

And if you knew that treysgt had a problem with a backdraft last week, and because of having CO detectors, probably saved his family from injury or even possible death,,, Then you would realize how 'asinine' your comment really is.

Quote: People have them to help prevent an accident, not so they can turn their brain off. I'm not sure how this LL Pioneer thread got on this direction, but your comment is totally asinine.

coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .

: People have them to help prevent an accident, not so they can turn their brain off. I'm not sure how this LL Pioneer thread got on this direction, but your comment is totally asinine. UnQuote/

I think his comment is appropriate,

GL

coalstoves · By: **coalstoves** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:09 pm

LsFarm wrote:I think his comment is appropriate,

GL

already and get some rest

Wood'nCoal · By: **Wood'nCoal** On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:17 pm

coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .

Here we have a new member asking a perfectly sensible question about a stove. In the middle of the posts answering the question we find the above post, which really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Naturally, the thread went off-topic in short order, many of us felt we had to respond to the ridiculous nature of the above comment.
Apparently, Coalstoves, if you feel that common sense and "using" your "brain" is an appropriate substitute for a CO detector (a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor), then you must not ever sleep. I feel confident that with a little research I can find many newspaper reports of people who went to sleep and never woke up as a result of CO poisoning. Many of whom were "using" their "brain" and were using common sense.
May I suggest that you try "using" your "brain" and refrain from posting any more asinine remarks from this point forward.
We probably scared RoadKing away.
Thanks, Dallas for your explanation, not all of us were around when coal was king.

Ripple · By: **Ripple** On: Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:48 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:
coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .

Here we have a new member asking a perfectly sensible question about a stove. In the middle of the posts answering the question we find the above post, which really has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Naturally, the thread went off-topic in short order, many of us felt we had to respond to the ridiculous nature of the above comment.
Apparently, Coalstoves, if you feel that common sense and "using" your "brain" is an appropriate substitute for a CO detector (a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor), then you must not ever sleep. I feel confident that with a little research I can find many newspaper reports of people who went to sleep and never woke up as a result of CO poisoning. Many of whom were "using" their "brain" and were using common sense.
May I suggest that you try "using" your "brain" and refrain from posting any more asinine remarks from this point forward.
We probably scared RoadKing away.
Thanks, Dallas for your explanation, not all of us were around when coal was king.

LsFarm wrote:
coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .

So what was the purpose of this comment anyway??

And if you knew that treysgt had a problem with a backdraft last week, and because of having CO detectors, probably saved his family from injury or even possible death,,, Then you would realize how 'asinine' your comment really is.

Quote: People have them to help prevent an accident, not so they can turn their brain off. I'm not sure how this LL Pioneer thread got on this direction, but your comment is totally asinine.
coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .

: People have them to help prevent an accident, not so they can turn their brain off. I'm not sure how this LL Pioneer thread got on this direction, but your comment is totally asinine. UnQuote/

I think his comment is appropriate,

GL

Looks like you guyz are trying to BAIT an argument

Wood'nCoal · By: **Wood'nCoal** On: Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:03 am

Not really, Ripple, just responding to a stupid remark that has nothing to do with this thread.

Matthaus · By: **Matthaus** On: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:12 pm

rberq wrote:If one has a power vent (mounted outside) with a baro inside, what happens when the electricity fails? What keeps the products of combustion from coming into the room?

A power vented or direct vented stove must be installed with a Field Controls WMO-1 safety switch that shuts off the stoker proper if draft is lost due to power outage or other means. Loss of power is not the only failure mode, if the power vent/direct vent quits working there will still be power to feed more coal. The way the switch works is that it is a snap disc wired in series with the stoker circuit that opens when the lack of draft causes the heat to travel up a tube connected from the switch to the firebox. The exception to this rule is the Harman DVC 500 which uses a non chimney venting methodology that doesn't require power, is a bit pricey but worth a look.

Wood'nCoal · By: **Wood'nCoal** On: Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:20 pm

Thanks,
Matthaus for your explanation!

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