Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: roadking On: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:29 pm

Currently looking for a stoker stove, checked out Leisure Line web site did not see anything describing what type of heat exchanger is used. Trying to decide between Keystoker and Leisure Line. Stove will need to be power vented or a direct vent model.
roadking
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystokers/New Yorker
Stove/Furnace Model: K4,Baywindow

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: WNY On: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:09 am

What do you mean by heat exchanger? The hot air blows up from the bottom back and out the top normally on most stoves.

Most stoves can be ordered as Direct Vent or Power vent adapted.

The "Power" Vent is mounted on the outside of the house PULLing the exhaust gases out and with a baro damper, you can adjust you draft easily. A bit less noise, since it's mounted outside.

A "Direct" Vent is normally mounted on the back of the stove and PUSHES the exhaust out and you need to make sure the pipes are sealed good since it is under pressure and does not have a baro damper (unless you can put it in between the stove and power vent). The power vent has to be adjusted to get the correct draft. Also, if the stove is in your living area, the direct vent will produce more ambient noise with the blower running 24/7.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: gambler On: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:29 am

The stove bodies themselves are the heat exchangers. Most have a fan that will blow air up the back and across the top.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

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Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: pvolcko On: Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:31 pm

You'll see differences in how stoves channel exhaust gas to the flue. Some will utilize little more than a "baffle" plate or box at the top back of the stove to help trap gases and extract heat. Others will use "C" channels welded to the back of the stove in a few different configurations to channel the gases along the back of the stove (which is usually a double wall which houses convection air washing up and over the top of the stove to vent out the front or top). Some will weld "vane" plates on that back wall to increase heat extracting surface area.

Since you're looking for a direct or power vented stove, I'd suggest going with a bottom vent model. They typically have a bit higher efficiency than the top vent models and can make for a cleaner installation with all the flue pipe hidden from view.

I believe both the LL and Keystoker stoves use C-channel type configurations. Both offer top and bottom vent models.

Keystoker uses a custom designed and built direct vent, while Leisure Line uses modified SWG supplied power vents. There's no inherent difference in heating efficiency between direct vs power venting. What differences there are are found in considerations such a noise/comfort, ease of installation, overdraft protection, maintenance, and range of adjustment. In my opinion, direct vent offers easier installation. Power vent (particularly as LL supplies them) has the edge in noise, overdraft protection, maintenance, and range of adjustment.
pvolcko
 

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: rberq On: Thu Mar 20, 2008 6:33 pm

If one has a power vent (mounted outside) with a baro inside, what happens when the electricity fails? What keeps the products of combustion from coming into the room?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: pvolcko On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:44 am

Fair enough, and this is an argument in favor of chimney venting. However, the path of least resistance for the seeping gases is still the flue and out into the outdoors. The amount of gas seepage from the various holes and seals in the stove or flue is relatively small. No combustion air means there isn't a positive pressure to force those gases out. There may be a higher concentration of CO in the immediate area of the stove due to seepage, but it isn't likely to become a serious problem for the room or house. To protect against that possibility, CO detectors must be installed.
pvolcko
 

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:44 pm

Normally the stove will go out pretty quickly without any combustion air and the baro would close since there is no draft, a little might leak out of the around the baro flapper while it's cooling down. Some exhaust may still go out the power vent even if it's not running. But like Richard Said, CO detectors are a must in/around the stove and various parts of your house.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: coalstoves On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:53 pm

Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .
Last edited by coalstoves on Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: gambler On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:11 pm

coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do no that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .


But back in those days enough air leaked into the house that it could blow out candles.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: coalstoves On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:14 pm

gambler wrote:But back in those days enough air leaked into the house that it could blow out candles.


I see so we have improved our homes enough to make them dangerous
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:14 pm

coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .


So do you think 'Smoke detectors' are just a 'battery opperated gadget with microprocessor' ?? The newspapers today, as well as in the past often have whole pages about people dying from fires in their homes... which could have been avoided by having operational smoke detectors....

Yes as Gambler stated those houses were not well sealed, used kerosene lamps and candles for lighting.. and electricity was rare...if available at all, this depends on where and when you are refering to.

The stoves sold by LeisureLine and all stoker stoves require electricity.. whether hooked to a chimney or to a powervent. If the electricity fails, the combustion blower goes out, and the combustion of the coal quickly fails, the CO is eliminated. The quantity of coal is pretty small, usually about a double-handfull... However, in a hand feed stove, there is a bucketfull or two of coal burning, and it will produce a LOT more CO before the fire is out.

Actually the papers often had deaths described as from 'coal gas' , a 'blocked chimney' or similar explaination that today would be described as Carbon Monoxide Poisoning.

IT really doesn't have much to do with common sense... or using their brains... I'm sure if people back before electricity could have some form of inexpensive alarm, say an animal that made a real racket if the air got too foul to breath, then that 'alarm system' would have been common, like the canary in the mines... But you would need an 'alarm animal' that would make enough noise to wake you from a sound sleep to be effective...

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: treysgt On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:53 pm

coalstoves wrote:Not that I would ever advocate not using a CO detector, but you do know that for many years the human race survived without them and yes they even burned Coal and the local papers never needed extra space to list all the dead folks from CO poisoning amazing isn't it that people could use their brains and common sense instead of a battery operated gadget with a microprocessor .


People have them to help prevent an accident, not so they can turn their brain off. I'm not sure how this LL Pioneer thread got on this direction, but your comment is totally asinine.
treysgt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark1

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: spc On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:36 pm

If it hasn't been mentioned & FWIW, all Leisure Line stove come with a CO Detector.
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: roadking On: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:41 pm

Thanks for the responses basic question was where does exhaust gas go from firebox, does it exit at bottom then up thru c-channels. I Know where Keystoker exhaust leaves firebox. Also any comments on Coaltrol will be a help also Dave
roadking
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystokers/New Yorker
Stove/Furnace Model: K4,Baywindow

Re: Question on Leisure Line Pioneer

PostBy: coalstoves On: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:27 am

LsFarm wrote:
Actually the papers often had deaths described as from 'coal gas' , a 'blocked chimney' or similar explaination that today would be described as Carbon Monoxide Poisoning.
:dancing:
Greg L


Did you have a lot of those type things happen in Michigan cause around here in Pa. they where far and few between
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

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