Geneva Andes 517 W/ Double Heater Feature Stove Restoration

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Photog200
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Post by Photog200 » Mon. Oct. 26, 2015 8:38 pm

joeq wrote:
Photog200 wrote:I just had the local "best welder" stop by and the small crack I found will be done on Wednesday. I will prepare the grates to send out to the foundry to have a new set made and then the stove can be put back together. I want the original grates on my shelf so if I need them for future needs. All is coming together nicely...just need to order some mica and some stove bolts and we are under way.
Randy
"Grate" idea Randy. I was thinking the same thing. (As many have recommended mucho times in the past)
(Now where did I put those things?) ;)
Absolutely, all of my stove parts are on one shelf for now, but they are expanding....I need a new building! :clap:

Randy


 
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Photog200
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Post by Photog200 » Wed. Oct. 28, 2015 5:18 pm

The welding job tonight went well, all I have to do now is clean up the welds and then I can finish painting the last two parts. I still have to prep the grates to send off to Tomahawk Foundry. Once they come back, I can start re-assembly.

My first two calls to local people I thought would do the nickel plating do not do personal work. Once more place local to check then I will have to ask for advise where to take the plating job.

Randy

 
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Post by deepwoods » Wed. Oct. 28, 2015 5:51 pm

Photog200 wrote:The welding job tonight went well, all I have to do now is clean up the welds and then I can finish painting the last two parts. I still have to prep the grates to send off to Tomahawk Foundry. Once they come back, I can start re-assembly.

My first two calls to local people I thought would do the nickel plating do not do personal work. Once more place local to check then I will have to ask for advise where to take the plating job.

Randy
Randy, about the grates, I know everyone, it seems, want spare grates for the Antique stoves. Some of them appear quite fragile. The triangle grates seem considerably heavier than the draw type. If a stove is operated sensibly without overheating and allowing the ash to pile up beneath the grates their life should be very long. Some of the old stoves have good grates in them but it would be hard to say they are "original". I am used to seeing my Hitzer & DS Machine grates and they look as stout tank treads. I would expect them when used properly to outlast more than one owner. But in regard to old and rare items the old saying holds true, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush :D
Anyhow, sounds like you are getting close to having all those parts on the shelf stacked in the proper order and looking like an Andes 517 Double Heater.

 
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Post by joeq » Wed. Oct. 28, 2015 5:58 pm

Too bad, about the local platers, not wanting to take on yours. Must be nice to be so busy, you can turn away work. Would've been even nicer to not have to box them for shipping. One of our members was getting ready to send his trim out for plating, but dental issues put a squash on it (unfortunately). I guess that wasn't you Randy.

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Oct. 28, 2015 9:28 pm

Many plating shops are not set up to handle the polishing and repair work needed for antique restoration plating. Some shops only do the antiques as a side job. Their main business being plating of new mass produced parts, which are not near as labor intensive, so that type work is more profitable for them.

I used to get beautiful nickel plating done by a shop in Elmira, NY that specialized in plating new electronic components. But, they could only do nickel and only with new rolls of copper tubing I'd send them for my work when restoring engine oil and fuel lines.

And some shops that did antique work have dropped it because of lack of skilled labor. I know of a Syracuse shop that only does the plating - mostly for other plating and metal finishing shops. They stopped doing the polishing, when their last polisher quit about ten years ago. Because they have large plating tanks, they get the big pieces such as bumpers and radiator shells that are too big for other plating shops as far away as Hartford Conn. and Long Island. Sending those parts to Syracuse to be plated, then trucked back to wherever to be polished in between the layers of copper, then the nickel, then the chrome, really jacks up the cost. :shock:

What's made it tougher is that in the last 35+ years about 75% of the plating shops have gone out of business rather than sink tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars into equipment to be EPA compliant. Two other plating shops closed within the last ten years in the Syracuse area alone.

So, of the few plating shops left, they tend to be swamped with work - whether it's new, or old parts.

Paul

 
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Post by Photog200 » Wed. Oct. 28, 2015 9:43 pm

joeq wrote:Too bad, about the local platers, not wanting to take on yours. Must be nice to be so busy, you can turn away work. Would've been even nicer to not have to box them for shipping. One of our members was getting ready to send his trim out for plating, but dental issues put a squash on it (unfortunately). I guess that wasn't you Randy.
Ok, wise a**, LOL I may not be able to have the nickel done right now, but I can still do my research. toothy toothy Dentist appointment in the morning. I told the dentist, for that price the crowns had better have diamonds and ruby's in them! LOL
Randy

 
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Photog200
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Post by Photog200 » Wed. Oct. 28, 2015 9:45 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Many plating shops are not set up to handle the polishing and repair work needed for antique restoration plating. Some shops only do the antiques as a side job. Their main business being plating of new mass produced parts, which are not near as labor intensive, so that type work is more profitable for them.

I used to get beautiful nickel plating done by a shop in Elmira, NY that specialized in plating new electronic components. But, they could only do nickel and only with new rolls of copper tubing I'd send them for my work when restoring engine oil and fuel lines.

And some shops that did antique work have dropped it because of lack of skilled labor. I know of a Syracuse shop that only does the plating - mostly for other plating and metal finishing shops. They stopped doing the polishing, when their last polisher quit about ten years ago. Because they have large plating tanks, they get the big pieces such as bumpers and radiator shells that are too big for other plating shops as far away as Hartford Conn. and Long Island. Sending those parts to Syracuse to be plated, then trucked back to wherever to be polished in between the layers of copper, then the nickel, then the chrome, really jacks up the cost. :shock:

What's made it tougher is that in the last 35+ years about 75% of the plating shops have gone out of business rather than sink tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars into equipment to be EPA compliant. Two other plating shops closed within the last ten years in the Syracuse area alone.

So, of the few plating shops left, they tend to be swamped with work - whether it's new, or old parts.

Paul
Paul, I suspect the shop you just referred to was the last shop in Syracuse I was going to call. They specialize in car bumper restorations. :cry:

Randy


 
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Post by joeq » Wed. Oct. 28, 2015 10:00 pm

Photog200 wrote: Ok, wise a**, LOL I may not be able to have the nickel done right now, but I can still do my research. toothy toothy Dentist appointment in the morning. I told the dentist, for that price the crowns had better have diamonds and ruby's in them! LOL
Randy
Hey Randy, maybe he can also do your nickel for you. :D

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Oct. 28, 2015 10:06 pm

Photog200 wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Many plating shops are not set up to handle the polishing and repair work needed for antique restoration plating. Some shops only do the antiques as a side job. Their main business being plating of new mass produced parts, which are not near as labor intensive, so that type work is more profitable for them.

I used to get beautiful nickel plating done by a shop in Elmira, NY that specialized in plating new electronic components. But, they could only do nickel and only with new rolls of copper tubing I'd send them for my work when restoring engine oil and fuel lines.

And some shops that did antique work have dropped it because of lack of skilled labor. I know of a Syracuse shop that only does the plating - mostly for other plating and metal finishing shops. They stopped doing the polishing, when their last polisher quit about ten years ago. Because they have large plating tanks, they get the big pieces such as bumpers and radiator shells that are too big for other plating shops as far away as Hartford Conn. and Long Island. Sending those parts to Syracuse to be plated, then trucked back to wherever to be polished in between the layers of copper, then the nickel, then the chrome, really jacks up the cost. :shock:

What's made it tougher is that in the last 35+ years about 75% of the plating shops have gone out of business rather than sink tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars into equipment to be EPA compliant. Two other plating shops closed within the last ten years in the Syracuse area alone.

So, of the few plating shops left, they tend to be swamped with work - whether it's new, or old parts.

Paul
Paul, I suspect the shop you just referred to was the last shop in Syracuse I was going to call. They specialize in car bumper restorations. :cry:

Randy
Yup! Dat be da place . ;)

 
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Post by Photog200 » Sat. Nov. 07, 2015 6:37 pm

I took some time off from working on the stove but am back at it now. I have all of the parts cleaned and painted. Today, I worked on getting the grates ready for the foundry as I am having a spare set made in case I ever need any for my stove in the house. In the first photo you can see where I added 3/16" of Bondo to the long grates and 1/8" to the short grates. The second photo shows them with two coats of exterior house paint to add thickness to them. They are now ready to send off to Tomahawk.

Randy

Attachments

Andes-0823.jpg

This photo shows Bondo added to end of grate to make up for shrinkage at foundry

.JPG | 115.9KB | Andes-0823.jpg
Andes-0827.jpg

Two coats of paint added to add thickness to make up for shrinkage at foundry

.JPG | 131.8KB | Andes-0827.jpg

 
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Post by joeq » Sat. Nov. 07, 2015 9:59 pm

Looks good Randy. Compensating for "shrinkage" I take it? Curious to see the results, and how much the re-casts differ.

 
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Post by Photog200 » Sat. Nov. 07, 2015 10:15 pm

joeq wrote:Looks good Randy. Compensating for "shrinkage" I take it? Curious to see the results, and how much the re-casts differ.
Yes, compensating for shrinkage. The long grates are 17" and the short ones are 14". With 1/8" shrinkage per foot, I made the short ones 1/8" (close enough for me, plus the paint on the ends) longer and the long ones 3/16" longer. The thick coating of paint, I hope will make up for the overall shrinkage. I will probably send these out next week sometime.

Randy

 
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Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Nov. 08, 2015 7:05 am

Nice job Randy.

Joe,

The recasts will have about .010 per inch of shrinkage (1/8 inch per foot). For a 17 inch long recast bar you can expect it to lose .170 inch of total length. And about .020 across the roughly 2 inch width of the bars.

Something like that works well in thickness, like Bondo, is needed for the total shrinkage of the long lengths.

The two coats of thick paint being about .005 for each layer, and covering each surface, will make up for shrinkage on the short lengths such as the thickness of the teeth and across the width of the bars. ;)

Paul

 
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Post by joeq » Sun. Nov. 08, 2015 9:01 am

Yous guys got this down to a science, don't ya? Very good.

 
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Photog200
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Post by Photog200 » Sun. Nov. 08, 2015 9:12 am

joeq wrote:Yous guys got this down to a science, don't ya? Very good.
Yup, Paul skooled me real good before hand! toothy

Randy


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