Old Subject / New Stove...

 
rberq
Member
Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 10:38 am

Sunny Boy wrote:That's 'cause your up higher on the map. Ya need more draft up there. :D
:o I knew there had to be a scientific explanation. If I were in South America would my flue gases swirl the other way?

But seriously: If I were at a higher elevation, say 10,000 feet up in the Rockies where the air is significantly thinner, would I need to set the baro differently? Hot flue gases would be less buoyant relative to ground-level air, than they are at sea level.
:?: :?: :?:


 
ddahlgren
Member
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue. Feb. 19, 2013 3:30 pm
Location: Mystic CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Contact:

Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 11:20 am

Why do you need more draft. It is a pressure differential not an absolute one. 0.02 inches of water differential is the same no matter what the starting or ending point. Please explain how the same differential does not work no matter what the altitude.

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25555
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 11:24 am

rberq wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:That's 'cause your up higher on the map. Ya need more draft up there. :D
:o I knew there had to be a scientific explanation. If I were in South America would my flue gases swirl the other way?

....................
But, of coriolis,... umm I mean, ..... but, of course it would! :D

Paul

 
rberq
Member
Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 12:55 pm

ddahlgren wrote:Please explain how the same differential does not work no matter what the altitude.
If I knew the answer, I would not be asking the question. :)

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 1:05 pm

Does this stove have a thermostatic control on the inlet damper?

 
ddahlgren
Member
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue. Feb. 19, 2013 3:30 pm
Location: Mystic CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Contact:

Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 2:49 pm

rberq wrote:
ddahlgren wrote:Please explain how the same differential does not work no matter what the altitude.
If I knew the answer, I would not be asking the question. :)
rather certain 0.02 differential knows no difference.

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 3:02 pm

At higher altitudes, the air molecules would be farther apart. Same reason we would breath more labored at higher altitudes.

So, per a specific volume there is less oxygen. The solution would be to run the primary combustion air inlet bigger OR increase negative draft pressure to compensate, to get the same burn rate as sea level.


 
ddahlgren
Member
Posts: 1769
Joined: Tue. Feb. 19, 2013 3:30 pm
Location: Mystic CT
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404
Contact:

Post by ddahlgren » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 3:52 pm

Lightning wrote:At higher altitudes, the air molecules would be farther apart. Same reason we would breath more labored at higher altitudes.

So, per a specific volume there is less oxygen. The solution would be to run the primary combustion air inlet bigger OR increase negative draft pressure to compensate, to get the same burn rate as sea level.
The difference less than you might imagine in commonly occupied places.

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 4:32 pm

ddahlgren wrote:The difference less than you might imagine in commonly occupied places.
True, but there is enough difference that some baking recipes do show instructions for elevations above 5000 feet. But I agree, it wouldn't be much of a difference.. Unless you live at 15,000 feet :lol:

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25555
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 4:35 pm

Lightning wrote:At higher altitudes, the air molecules would be farther apart. Same reason we would breath more labored at higher altitudes.

So, per a specific volume there is less oxygen. The solution would be to run the primary combustion air inlet bigger OR increase negative draft pressure to compensate, to get the same burn rate as sea level.
True Lee. You would have to change damper settings with substantial changes in altitude. But, are we talking about air needed to burn coal, or is it the difference in draft pressure inside the stove/chimney system verses air pressure outside that system ?

Both involve air pressure, but only one remains relative with changes in altitude, that's the differential pressure that causes "draft", and I think that's what Dave is talking about.

Unless I missed something ? :oops:

Paul

 
User avatar
Lightning
Site Moderator
Posts: 14659
Joined: Wed. Nov. 16, 2011 9:51 am
Location: Olean, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: Modified AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea Size - Anthracite

Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 4:59 pm

My interpretation was that the question was, would .02 differential be the same at different altitudes. My thought is that yes the pressure difference is the same but the amount of oxygen brought into the stove would change due to less actual parts per volume.

But yeah I think you interpreted better now that I look it over again. :)

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25555
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Lightning wrote:My interpretation was that the question was, would .02 differential be the same at different altitudes. My thought is that yes the pressure difference is the same but the amount of oxygen brought into the stove would change due to less actual parts per volume.

.............................
Yup, both your thoughts are correct.

Paul

 
User avatar
oliver power
Member
Posts: 2970
Joined: Sun. Apr. 16, 2006 9:28 am
Location: Near Dansville, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-2310), D.S. 1600 Circulator, Hitzer 254

Post by oliver power » Sun. Oct. 18, 2015 9:43 pm

Rob R. wrote:Does this stove have a thermostatic control on the inlet damper?
YES!

 
User avatar
Rob R.
Site Moderator
Posts: 17980
Joined: Fri. Dec. 28, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Chazy, NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr

Post by Rob R. » Mon. Oct. 19, 2015 5:14 am

oliver power wrote:
Rob R. wrote:Does this stove have a thermostatic control on the inlet damper?
YES!
In that case, put the MPD in and plan on leaving it open 99% of the time.

 
rberq
Member
Posts: 6445
Joined: Mon. Apr. 16, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Central Maine
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Mon. Oct. 19, 2015 11:47 am

Rob R. wrote:
Rob R. wrote:Does this stove have a thermostatic control on the inlet damper?
In that case, put the MPD in and plan on leaving it open 99% of the time.
Or put in a baro and set it quite high, like at .12 or .16??? Aside from minor air leakage, wouldn't that have about the same effect as the MPD but with no need to worry about when to adjust it?


Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”