First Fire KA6

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 5:23 am

Question is picture taken while ka 6 is running or did you turn it off to take pic? Was it still on demand cycle? Only time I've got a bed of hot coal with no high flames is when unit just came off of demand. Bed of hot coal seems a bit much. Feed adjustment for rice is different from buck by 2-3 turns on feed nut.

johnjoseph · Post by **johnjoseph** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 5:35 am

Wiz...it was running when picture was taken. ...burning rice coal....never had any high flames yet...always blue flames

Wiz · Post by **Wiz** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 5:59 am

While mine runs it has 4 -7 inches of flames. did you inspect under the grates to see if its filled up with fines? Inspect blower too to make sure its good. seems to me air flow is being restricted

johnjoseph · Post by **johnjoseph** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 6:11 am

Wiz..on an older unit like this how would I check air flow and fines. ..let the fire going out and pull the grates....no other access points that I can see

gaw · Post by **gaw** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 7:10 am

Remove the big motor to get under grates. A small diameter vacuum hose gets in there easily.

It is hard to tell from the picture but I believe you air flap is almost closed. See the notations I made on the picture to adjust it. A draft gauge should be used to make sure you are not opening the flap too far. As long as you have some draft with the blower running you can open it as far as possible but you never want a slight pressure or the smoke will start to find other ways out other than the stack.

.JPG | 133.2KB | ka6.jpg

lzaharis · Post by **lzaharis** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 7:42 am

johnjoseph wrote:Wiz..on an older unit like this how would I check air flow and fines. ..let the fire going out and pull the grates....no other access points that I can see

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Be sure to use good furnace cement to seal the side rails of the stoker and
between the stoker bed plates after you clean it. Use the furnace cement to seal the
stoker to the mounting point on the boiler if you pull it off the boiler.

You may need to clean the fan by dissassembling the fan from the motor shaft
soak it in some hot water with Dawn Dish Soap and scrub the dirt off.

If you have access to an ultrasonic cleaner you can use that too as long as you check for
any loose dirt that needs to be scrubbed out before you put the fan in the ultrasonic cleaner.
Otherwise soak it in really hot water with Dawn Dish Soap and use a small wire brush to clean it.

Be sure to allow the fan to to dry out completely and use Blue Loctite to hold it in place on the
motor shaft. Be sure to vacuum the motor out really well too.

Post by **StokerDon** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 5:26 pm

gaw wrote:Remove the big motor to get under grates. A small diameter vacuum hose gets in there easily.

It is hard to tell from the picture but I believe you air flap is almost closed. See the notations I made on the picture to adjust it. A draft gauge should be used to make sure you are not opening the flap too far. As long as you have some draft with the blower running you can open it as far as possible but you never want a slight pressure or the smoke will start to find other ways out other than the stack.
ka6.jpg

Good call gaw. It has to be that OR the motor is rotating back wards. Those flames should be way bigger than that!

-Don

johnjoseph · Post by **johnjoseph** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 7:32 pm

How can I tell if the fan is going backwards. ..this is a new install and there are no fines and the grates are cement ed....could the fan be wired wrong....should the feed be turning clock wise or counter clockwise

lzaharis · Post by **lzaharis** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 8:55 pm

I doubt its running in reverse, most low voltage motors are not made to
run in reverse.

If the motor and stoker was running in reverse you would have a very
hot fan shroud, fumes in the basement and perhaps a cooked
electric motor more than likely.

The paint would have burned off the fan motor too. Most likely the air shutter
needs to be opened halfway and the shutter adjustment locked in place.

You need to invest in an manometer to adjust the air shutter for the
recommended draft settings. you have to be carefull about that as your altitude above
sea level may be an issue-higher altitude means lower air pressure at gauge reading.

McGiever · Post by **McGiever** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 9:08 pm

It is a known issue to have these squirrel cage fan motors wired to run backwards. Some appliances do not rotate as a coal stoker does. And, no it doesn't blow backwards...it is only piss-poor at producing the volume of air necessary for a proper fire in a stoker appliance.

So just maybe???

Post by **StokerDon** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 9:41 pm

lzaharis wrote:I doubt its running in reverse, most low voltage motors are not made to
run in reverse.

If the motor and stoker was running in reverse you would have a very
hot fan shroud, fumes in the basement and perhaps a cooked
electric motor more than likely.

I don't know where you get your information from but this is exactly what would happen if the 120 volt AC motor was wired to rotate in the opposite direction. The coal would feed perfectly normal and the fire would be very weak looking because the blower would not be blowing much air.

No, you wouldn't have fumes, or a cooked motor, just a very lifeless fire like JJ has.

On most of these motors you pop off the cover, switch two wires, and the motor turns the opposite direction. If you don't believe me, have a look at this youtube video where I show exactly how to do it.

-Don

lzaharis · Post by **lzaharis** » Fri. Oct. 23, 2015 11:39 pm

I made that statement based on my working
on high voltage 3 phase motors in my work
experience with everything from 480 Volt
to 1,000 horsepower three phase motors
powering conveyors and mobile mining
equipment.

Its easy enough to check the motors rotation anyway,
and we are just speculating on the possible cause.

gaw · Post by **gaw** » Sat. Oct. 24, 2015 4:55 am

You may want to start over. Use defalt settings, check everything in an orderly fashion rather than a shotgun aproach. A lot of posibilities mentioned. Draft could be an issue. These coal stokers love an old drafty house but can be stubborn in a newer well insulated and tight house. With the cooler weather you should be pulling a draft but you need to check to see if it is adequate.

johnjoseph · Post by **johnjoseph** » Sat. Oct. 24, 2015 6:28 am

If have checked draft and it is correct. ...I've also completed all other tasks suggested except for reversing the motor. ..as an experiment. .. I put a fan beneath the air intake and the flames became higher...but not as I've seen in pictures. ...so I am having my furnace gut come and reverse polarity. ...

johnjoseph · Post by **johnjoseph** » Sat. Oct. 24, 2015 6:50 am

I want to sincerely thank all that have given me support with these issues. ...it's a definite showing of the support of burning coal. ..I haven't been discouraged at all...just a learning curve for me....this forums members are very supportive and I now feel like a family member