The Bairmatic - Van Wert Project
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
60PSI, twice the PRV pressure. With my well pump I can only get it to 47PSI. I figure if it can hold 47PSI over night, that's good enough for me.
-Don
-Don
-
- Member
- Posts: 4197
- Joined: Wed. Oct. 03, 2012 9:53 am
- Location: Western Massachusetts
- Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14, Abendroth Bros "Record 40"
- Coal Size/Type: Stove / Anthracite.
- Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.
We have O2 bottles on the jets at work hydro-statically tested every ten years (submersed in a tank/vessel of water and pressurized with water) but they operate @ 2400psi and are hydro tested @ twice ops psi IIRC.
At only 60 psi the boiler would have to be the size of a small house to be a safety problem during a leak check
I am looking forward to this build....as of late....lm quite interested in stokers.
Uh oh
At only 60 psi the boiler would have to be the size of a small house to be a safety problem during a leak check
I am looking forward to this build....as of late....lm quite interested in stokers.
Uh oh
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I'm not a mechanical engineer but I would imagine the pressure vessels you are talking about are very different than the large flat pieces of mild steel welded together that make up a boiler like this one. I'm not 100% sure but I think testing with water rather than air is an ASME standard for this type of boiler.
The advice I have gotten and read about on this forum says pressure testing with air is dangerous. I have no reason to doubt it.
I'm glad you are interested in the stoker thing Scalabro. Maybe we can get you all the way up to coal stoker boiler in one shot!
-Don
The advice I have gotten and read about on this forum says pressure testing with air is dangerous. I have no reason to doubt it.
I'm glad you are interested in the stoker thing Scalabro. Maybe we can get you all the way up to coal stoker boiler in one shot!
-Don
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Air volume does compress so volume is/can be much LARGER than vessel volume @ atmosphmetric pressure.
Liquid volume does NOT compress...so liquid volume is EQUAL to vessel volume.
With any vessel release, EXCESS/LARGER/COMPRESSED volume can/will escape very rapidly.
Liquid volume does NOT compress...so liquid volume is EQUAL to vessel volume.
With any vessel release, EXCESS/LARGER/COMPRESSED volume can/will escape very rapidly.
Last edited by McGiever on Sun. Nov. 22, 2015 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Ah, so that's the reason. At 60 PSI we would have about 4 atmospheres of air volume. If those atmospheres found a way to get out, they would. And they would take bits of metal with them! Kind of a low yield bomb.
-Don
-Don
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Raising the temp up to convert water (liquid) into steam (vapor like air) and it's a whole new game.
PRV's (pressue relief valve's) are your friend at this level.
PRV's (pressue relief valve's) are your friend at this level.
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
BairMatic pressure test, take 2:
I took the plate that formerly had the DHW coil in it. Cut off and drilled out the fittings. Then ground it nice and flat. I made a new gasket out of a piece of rubber I had laying around, It's not as thick as it should be, but it will work for now I think. I put a thin coat of RTV on all the gaskets this time. The coil holes are gasket-ed and nut and bolted with large grade 8 washers. There it is, ready to go on. I'm going to leave the RTV set up for a while before I put any pressure to it. I sure hope this works! This DHW coil crap is costing me a lot of time. I had hoped to have this boiler all pressure tested, cleaned up and painted by the end of today.
Hopefully I can get it painted and in the basement over the Thanksgiving holiday.
-Don
I took the plate that formerly had the DHW coil in it. Cut off and drilled out the fittings. Then ground it nice and flat. I made a new gasket out of a piece of rubber I had laying around, It's not as thick as it should be, but it will work for now I think. I put a thin coat of RTV on all the gaskets this time. The coil holes are gasket-ed and nut and bolted with large grade 8 washers. There it is, ready to go on. I'm going to leave the RTV set up for a while before I put any pressure to it. I sure hope this works! This DHW coil crap is costing me a lot of time. I had hoped to have this boiler all pressure tested, cleaned up and painted by the end of today.
Hopefully I can get it painted and in the basement over the Thanksgiving holiday.
-Don
Last edited by StokerDon on Sun. Nov. 22, 2015 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
OK, we're in business!
After leaving it sit for a few hours full of hot water with no pressure, I found no leaks. Then, I filled to 40 PSI at about 120 degrees. So far, so good, no leaks! I expect the pressure to drop due to the cooling of the water overnight. If it's still above 30 PSI tomorrow and there are no signs of leaks, we will call it good.
-Don
After leaving it sit for a few hours full of hot water with no pressure, I found no leaks. Then, I filled to 40 PSI at about 120 degrees. So far, so good, no leaks! I expect the pressure to drop due to the cooling of the water overnight. If it's still above 30 PSI tomorrow and there are no signs of leaks, we will call it good.
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
BairMatic pressure test=== PASS!
I came home from work today to see 30 PSI on the gauge and a bone dry boiler. That's good enough for me. That's still PB Blaster, not water. There is one stud that bothers me. This one is quite thin at the base and it is bent a little. I know what is going to happen. Once I get the boiler down the basement, get everything hooked up and get the domestic coil mounted in there, the stud will break off! I'm going to shortcut this process and just cut it off now. Then drill and tap it for a new stud.
The boiler got a nice flushing after the pressure test. I tipped it back with a jack to get the rest of the water out. One thing that is odd about this boiler design is the front. Because of the large stoker holes in each side, the water at the bottom of the front cannot be drained out and can't really circulate. Basically this is all the water below the fire door on the front of the boiler. I wonder if this hurts efficiency?
-Don
I came home from work today to see 30 PSI on the gauge and a bone dry boiler. That's good enough for me. That's still PB Blaster, not water. There is one stud that bothers me. This one is quite thin at the base and it is bent a little. I know what is going to happen. Once I get the boiler down the basement, get everything hooked up and get the domestic coil mounted in there, the stud will break off! I'm going to shortcut this process and just cut it off now. Then drill and tap it for a new stud.
The boiler got a nice flushing after the pressure test. I tipped it back with a jack to get the rest of the water out. One thing that is odd about this boiler design is the front. Because of the large stoker holes in each side, the water at the bottom of the front cannot be drained out and can't really circulate. Basically this is all the water below the fire door on the front of the boiler. I wonder if this hurts efficiency?
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Today I cut that stud off, drilled and tapped the hole and installed a new stud.
Then I wire brushed and vacuumed out the bottom of the boiler. Wheeled it outside and put a good coating of Rust Reformer on the whole ash pit area. I decided to try it on the boiler plates to. This will get a coating of Hi Temp Silver tomorrow. I have never tried painting the parts that are exposed to hi heat. I wounder if it will last. Things are moving along well. I should have it all cleaned and painted this weekend. Then it will be time to work on the stoker.
-Don
Then I wire brushed and vacuumed out the bottom of the boiler. Wheeled it outside and put a good coating of Rust Reformer on the whole ash pit area. I decided to try it on the boiler plates to. This will get a coating of Hi Temp Silver tomorrow. I have never tried painting the parts that are exposed to hi heat. I wounder if it will last. Things are moving along well. I should have it all cleaned and painted this weekend. Then it will be time to work on the stoker.
-Don
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
After work today I spent some time with the wire wheel. Then I pushed the BairMatic outside and hosed it down with Brake Kleen.
Then painted it inside and out with Hi Heat Silver. This is one nice clean boiler now! One thing I noticed after wire wheeling it down were stampings on the top plate of the boiler.
BMC= Bair Manufacturing Corp., 500= Model #500, 868= Serial #868. Also, on both rear corners of the top plate, there is an "S" stamped. I didn't know that BairMaitcs were "S" stamped boilers. Nice!
-Don
Then painted it inside and out with Hi Heat Silver. This is one nice clean boiler now! One thing I noticed after wire wheeling it down were stampings on the top plate of the boiler.
BMC= Bair Manufacturing Corp., 500= Model #500, 868= Serial #868. Also, on both rear corners of the top plate, there is an "S" stamped. I didn't know that BairMaitcs were "S" stamped boilers. Nice!
-Don
-
- Member
- Posts: 4197
- Joined: Wed. Oct. 03, 2012 9:53 am
- Location: Western Massachusetts
- Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14, Abendroth Bros "Record 40"
- Coal Size/Type: Stove / Anthracite.
- Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.
Looks good Don.
How many sq ft of house would something like that heat?
How many sq ft of house would something like that heat?
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7486
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I don't know? I'm not a heating professional. I am sure it will heat my 1400 sq ft house and 2 car garage. I think it may have more to do with how many BTU the burner is capable of putting out. These BairMatics are pretty small and don't hold a lot of water.
The BairMatic that Scrapper has heats his shop and the apartment above with no problem at all. His has an EFM S-15 stoker in it. The building is 2 story concrete block, basically 2 car bays wide and 2 deep. I guess that's about 1250 sq ft plus the apartment would be 2500 sq ft. That's a lot! I never figured it out before. A block building is not the easiest thing to heat either. Scrapper says it heats that building with ease. I guess the answer is, at least 2500 sq ft!
-Don
The BairMatic that Scrapper has heats his shop and the apartment above with no problem at all. His has an EFM S-15 stoker in it. The building is 2 story concrete block, basically 2 car bays wide and 2 deep. I guess that's about 1250 sq ft plus the apartment would be 2500 sq ft. That's a lot! I never figured it out before. A block building is not the easiest thing to heat either. Scrapper says it heats that building with ease. I guess the answer is, at least 2500 sq ft!
-Don
Last edited by StokerDon on Thu. Nov. 26, 2015 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Member
- Posts: 558
- Joined: Thu. Sep. 04, 2014 10:01 am
- Location: Western NY 14141
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KB-8
- Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Utica Propane Hot Water
it depends whose square feet you're talking about!
Boy Don you really got that boiler cleaned up nice. Do you know what size the water jacket is?
I'm very interested in how you like it in your basement vs the garage.
Boy Don you really got that boiler cleaned up nice. Do you know what size the water jacket is?
I'm very interested in how you like it in your basement vs the garage.
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
It's a shame, but boilers that looked like your before pic get sent off to the scrapyard every day to go be remelted.
Thanks for rescuing another one SD.
Thanks for rescuing another one SD.