Why is McCain the best choice for President?

spc wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:Disgusting or not....What do you think should be done to them if it later is proven to be true?

Better get it ready for Big Dick Halliburton....

spc wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:Disgusting or not....What do you think should be done to them if it later is proven to be true?

I agree. Problem is that Dick Cheney is presently having a multi-million dollar condo/island built off the coast of an arab buddy nation with no extradition treaty with the US.....Hmmmm.....I wonder why there??

If you 2 guys have got some dirt on Karl Rove, President Bush or VP Cheney I'm sure these 2 guys will listen & the NYT will pay you for the story.

I still don't understand how Republican Crooks can occupy the White House for 8 years and the Legislative Branch (presently Dem Majority) haven't impeached them yet?? Just boggles my mind. We have all the proof right here on the forum but yet the Legislative and Judicial Branches don't have anything on them....amazing.

I saw a quote a few pages back about a liar in the white house for at least 8 years....I think we can probably honestly extend that out to at least 16 years....well maybe 20 years....well maybe 28 years...

BugsyR wrote:I still don't understand how Republican Crooks can occupy the White House for 8 years and the Legislative Branch (presently Dem Majority) haven't impeached them yet?? Just boggles my mind. We have all the proof right here on the forum but yet the Legislative and Judicial Branches don't have anything on them....amazing.

I saw a quote a few pages back about a liar in the white house for at least 8 years....I think we can probably honestly extend that out to at least 16 years....well maybe 20 years....well maybe 28 years...

Ooops...The Navy has arrived! The answer as to why the Dems have no stomach for impeachment is the following:

1. The Dems in power (Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid) fear that there will be a voter lashback if they impeach Bush. (The obvious political witchhunt of an impeachment of Bill Clinton for sex left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, not just in Monica's. (sorry)
2. The Dems obviously are to dumb & to scared to have read the obvious anger at this administration in the last election & they are still missing the anger out here that is demanding an impeachment on the same charges that the House voted Nixon's impeachment articles on.
3. If we impeach Bush, then we get Cheney! (I say impeach the both at the same time)
4. I could make strong cases for obstruction of Justices charges (a felony) right now, against them both.

Thus , it is not lack of evidence that is preventing impeachment...It is lack of will, courage & misunderstanding the will of the people that is saving their sorry butts!

Devil5052 wrote:Please ploint out where you find anything Obama has done (himself, other than sitting in church) that discloses a lack of personal integerity

It isn't that I find Obama to be very lacking in personal integrity. The church thing and the rezko ties are concerning, but minor in comparison to the truck load of concerns regarding Hillary. I simply find McCain's integrity to be tops among the three. If I were to rate them (1 to 10, 10 best): McCain 9, Obama 7, Hillary 2.

The bulk of my distaste for Obama is due to his policy positions. I'm not in favor of the fast withdrawl from Iraq that he advocates. His foreign policy cred is near 0. I do not like his health care plans (however I find them the lesser evil compared to Hillary's). His history on social issues, particularly abortion policy, are abominable in my opinion. I could go on, but suffice it to say he's a very liberal politician and I'm not down with that.

If age or current mental state should not be considered...

Of course they are reasonable considerations. I just find the specific concerns voiced so far against McCain to be of little merit. The concerns have been fully voiced in the various threads. I'd eagerly await the point at which we move on.

Comparing the occupation in Iraq, where the Iraqi's are killing our GI's every day & over 70% of the Iraqi people want us out, to our welcome presence in Germany, Japan & S. Korea is like saying it is the same as being stationed in Hawaii........since both Hawaii & Iraq are warm climates!

And thinking that our post-war occupations and subsequent basing in Germany and Japan were devoid of similar costs, difficulties and sentiments in the early going is ignoring the reality of how difficult and costly establishing those "welcome presences" were.

Now on to stokingfull:

stokingfull wrote:Look, anybody who doesn't start out with at least the good judgment not to tell a joke about the appearance of a female child -- at least in public -- in the first place, has no business being president.

You're welcome to that opinion. I don't see it as nearly that damning of an event. People make mistakes in their joke telling, they misjudge their environment and what it proper or politically correct. I don't believe this misjudgement is indicative of a pattern of such misjudgement, nor do I think it is predictive of misjudgement in "critical moments" of national importance as President (should he be elected).

And, besides, he needs Joe Lieberman to tell him that Al Qaeda isn't trained in Iran.

Please. Do you honestly think he isn't fully informed and knowledgeable about the mid east and AQ? That it wasn't a simple verbal flub? You're grasping at straws on this one.

It is lack of will, courage & misunderstanding the will of the people that is saving their sorry butts!

The world's greatest nation's government sure does a wonderful job of pi$$ing its voters off doesn't it?

Ooops...The Navy has arrived!

Hey Devil...Anchor's Aweigh!

pvolcko wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:Please ploint out where you find anything Obama has done (himself, other than sitting in church) that discloses a lack of personal integerity

It isn't that I find Obama to be very lacking in personal integrity. The church thing and the rezko ties are concerning, but minor in comparison to the truck load of concerns regarding Hillary. I agree I simply find McCain's integrity to be tops among the three. A man who publicly belittles a little girl by calling her "ugly" for a joke has integrity? If I were to rate them (1 to 10, 10 best): McCain 9, Obama 7, Hillary 2.

The bulk of my distaste for Obama is due to his policy positions. I'm not in favor of the fast withdrawl from Iraq one year is hardly fast that he advocates. His foreign policy cred is near 0. So where many great presidents creds I do not like his health care plans (however I find them the lesser evil compared to Hillary's). His history on social issues, particularly abortion policy, are abominable in my opinion. Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I'm pro-choice I could go on, but suffice it to say he's a very liberal politician and I'm not down with that.

If age or current mental state should not be considered...

Of course they are reasonable considerations. I just find the specific concerns voiced so far against McCain to be of little merit. I find changing core concrens , Tax cut, torture & religeous right concerning & lack of knowledge on the economy VERY concerning! The concerns have been fully voiced in the various threads. I'd eagerly await the point at which we move on.

Comparing the occupation in Iraq, where the Iraqi's are killing our GI's every day & over 70% of the Iraqi people want us out, to our welcome presence in Germany, Japan & S. Korea is like saying it is the same as being stationed in Hawaii........since both Hawaii & Iraq are warm climates!

And thinking that our post-war occupations and subsequent basing in Germany and Japan were devoid of similar costs, difficulties and sentiments in the early going is ignoring the reality of how difficult and costly establishing those "welcome presences" were. Please enlighten me as to where & when in our occupations of Germany or Japan our GI's were regularly killed?
Now on to stokingfull:

stokingfull wrote:Look, anybody who doesn't start out with at least the good judgment not to tell a joke about the appearance of a female child -- at least in public -- in the first place, has no business being president.

You're welcome to that opinion. I don't see it as nearly that damning of an event. People make mistakes in their joke telling, they misjudge their environment and what it proper or politically correct. I don't believe this misjudgement is indicative of a pattern of such misjudgement, nor do I think it is predictive of misjudgement in "critical moments" of national importance as President (should he be elected).

And, besides, he needs Joe Lieberman to tell him that Al Qaeda isn't trained in Iran.

Please. Do you honestly think he isn't fully informed and knowledgeable about the mid east and AQ? That it wasn't a simple verbal flub? You're grasping at straws on this one.

I agree that it is very concerning. He made that mistake a number of times...not just once.

Devil5052 wrote:A man who publicly belittles a little girl by calling her "ugly" for a joke has integrity?

If that is his only meaningful act in his entire life, certainly not. However this was one moment in decades of integrity confirming events and actions and decisions. Has he made other mistakes and has other dings against the integrity scorecard, certainly. We obviously disagree on what they are and to how strong a ding they are against his whole record. So be it.

one year is hardly fast

I believe it is. And I also believe the speed with which he intends to start this year long process is also unwise.

So where many great presidents creds

Indeed. But given the choice of someone who does have that experience, among other desirable attributes, I think it is foolish to take the flier on the hope he turns out to be that rare, great president with relatively little to recommend him to the position.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I'm pro-choice

I'm pro-life, though I am not in favor of a national pro-life amendment nor do I actively advocate the position beyond immediate friends and family. The exception is when it comes to 3rd trimester abortion. It is a deplorable practice that should be banned in this country, in my opinion. Obama has supported it in the past, thus my strong negative wording for him on this issue. You may be pro-choice, but how pro-choice are you? Many pro-choicer's feel as I do that this form of abortion is a travesty that should be eliminated, particularly when they learn what it is, how it is done, and that the fetus, given today's medicine, is often viable at the point these procedures are done.

I find changing core concrens , Tax cut, torture & religeous right concerning & lack of knowledge on the economy VERY concerning!

I only wish we could discuss these issues instead of getting hung up on personality and sense of humor and mental stability. Seems that discussions of McCain around here inevitably end up at these non-issue oriented concerns.

Please enlighten me as to where & when in our occupations of Germany or Japan our GI's were regularly killed?

I'm not going to. My statement is based on things I've read and heard over the years and the impressions that I carry of that information. I have tried to find linkable information on the details of the immediate post WWII period before and had very little luck. There are high level discussions of the economy and the Marshal Plan and all that, but to get the kind of information we seek would likely require finding a university level text on the subject or doing primary sources research, none of which I'm about to do. Not a convincing argument, I know.

But consider that we lost more people in training accidents during WWII than we have in the entire Iraq war. Is your opposition really based on the fact that we're losing a historically very low number of citizens in this war (as definitely tragic as each life lost is), or is it principly that you do not believe the war to be a just or "good" war? I suspect it is primarily that later, in which case even one soldier dying is wrong in that view. And if that is the case then there is very little anyone can say or find in research that will convince you otherwise.

I agree that it is very concerning. He made that mistake a number of times...not just once.

Yeah, in the same speech. Or are you saying he's made the mistake on several different occasions? If so, care to point a few out? Seems the media would have picked up on that and maybe mentioned it in the coverage of this occasion were it a pattern.

He got locked on autopilot and repeated the same mistake a few times in this appearance. I'm still not seeing the big deal here. I'm a young wippernsapper compared to McCain and I'm of reasonably sound mind (I hope!) and I've done the same thing before on topics I'm intimately familiar with. I've seen and heard people far smarter than me do it too. It happens. You make a joke about it, regain composure, and move on. What's the issue?

Edit: Quick follow up. did a quick search on this Iraq/AQ gaffe. Turns out he made the same mistake in an interview with Hewitt on the March 17 show (Jordan presser gaffe was on the 18th). Have no idea how many other interviews or press appearances happened in this time period or how many times he got it right during that period. Maybe this was something besides a common screw up. I'm fairly confident it wasn't an example of him not knowing what the hell we was talking about, though.

I leave you with this:
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/112/0/1675.htm

Maybe he wasn't wrong after all.

pvolcko wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:A man who publicly belittles a little girl by calling her "ugly" for a joke has integrity?

If that is his only meaningful act in his entire life, certainly not. However this was one moment in decades of integrity confirming events and actions and decisions. Has he made other mistakes and has other dings against the integrity scorecard, certainly. We obviously disagree on what they are and to how strong a ding they are against his whole record. So be it.

one year is hardly fast

I believe it is. And I also believe the speed with which he intends to start this year long process is also unwise.

So where many great presidents creds

Indeed. But given the choice of someone who does have that experience, among other desirable attributes, I think it is foolish to take the flier on the hope he turns out to be that rare, great president with relatively little to recommend him to the position.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion. I'm pro-choice

I'm pro-life, though I am not in favor of a national pro-life amendment nor do I actively advocate the position beyond immediate friends and family. The exception is when it comes to 3rd trimester abortion. It is a deplorable practice that should be banned in this country, in my opinion. Obama has supported it in the past, thus my strong negative wording for him on this issue. You may be pro-choice, but how pro-choice are you? Many pro-choicer's feel as I do that this form of abortion is a travesty that should be eliminated, particularly when they learn what it is, how it is done, and that the fetus, given today's medicine, is often viable at the point these procedures are done.

I find changing core concrens , Tax cut, torture & religeous right concerning & lack of knowledge on the economy VERY concerning!

I only wish we could discuss these issues instead of getting hung up on personality and sense of humor and mental stability. Seems that discussions of McCain around here inevitably end up at these non-issue oriented concerns.

Please enlighten me as to where & when in our occupations of Germany or Japan our GI's were regularly killed?

I'm not going to. My statement is based on things I've read and heard over the years and the impressions that I carry of that information. I have tried to find linkable information on the details of the immediate post WWII period before and had very little luck. There are high level discussions of the economy and the Marshal Plan and all that, but to get the kind of information we seek would likely require finding a university level text on the subject or doing primary sources research, none of which I'm about to do. Not a convincing argument, I know.

But consider that we lost more people in training accidents during WWII than we have in the entire Iraq war. Is your opposition really based on the fact that we're losing a historically very low number of citizens in this war (as definitely tragic as each life lost is), or is it principly that you do not believe the war to be a just or "good" war? I suspect it is primarily that later, in which case even one soldier dying is wrong in that view. And if that is the case then there is very little anyone can say or find in research that will convince you otherwise.

I agree that it is very concerning. He made that mistake a number of times...not just once.

Yeah, in the same speech. Or are you saying he's made the mistake on several different occasions? If so, care to point a few out? Seems the media would have picked up on that and maybe mentioned it in the coverage of this occasion were it a pattern.

He got locked on autopilot and repeated the same mistake a few times in this appearance. I'm still not seeing the big deal here. I'm a young wippernsapper compared to McCain and I'm of reasonably sound mind (I hope!) and I've done the same thing before on topics I'm intimately familiar with. I've seen and heard people far smarter than me do it too. It happens. You make a joke about it, regain composure, and move on. What's the issue?

Edit: Quick follow up. did a quick search on this Iraq/AQ gaffe. Turns out he made the same mistake in an interview with Hewitt on the March 17 show (Jordan presser gaffe was on the 18th). Have no idea how many other interviews or press appearances happened in this time period or how many times he got it right during that period. Maybe this was something besides a common screw up. I'm fairly confident it wasn't an example of him not knowing what the hell we was talking about, though.

I leave you with this:
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/112/0/1675.htm

Maybe he wasn't wrong after all.

Sorry but I don't have alot of time right now but let me take a stab at as few of your points:

1. I believe that one year is more than enough time to safely move our soldiers out of the kill zone.
2. I am Pro-Choice to the extent that I feel that it is the height of hypocrisy to claim you are pro-life but then to have no problem sending innocent GI's to their death to defend the honor/Historical Standing of your Presidency, which I feel is GW Bush's intention.
3. Regardless of why he has flip/flopped on Torture, tax cuts, etc he is a flip/floper & his "current" posiitions are wrong, imo.
4. "I agree that it is very concerning. He made that mistake a number of times...not just once.[/quote]
Yeah, in the same speech. Or are you saying he's made the mistake on several different occasions?"....No, on a number of different occassions as late as yesterday. (I' dont have time to provide links right now but I will, if someone doesn't beat me too it. They are there & quite problimatical for a candidate who admitts to having very little economic knowledge to offer as potential President in very hard economic times , but touts his "expertise" on fgn. affairs.

Devil5052 wrote:2. I am Pro-Choice to the extent that I feel that it is the height of hypocrisy to claim you are pro-life but then to have no problem sending innocent GI's to their death to defend the honor/Historical Standing of your Presidency, which I feel is GW Bush's intention.

I gotta step in here. You are comparing the killing of innocent unborn babies to volunteer soldiers dying for our country? WOW!

spc wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:2. I am Pro-Choice to the extent that I feel that it is the height of hypocrisy to claim you are pro-life but then to have no problem sending innocent GI's to their death to defend the honor/Historical Standing of your Presidency, which I feel is GW Bush's intention.

I gotta step in here. You are comparing the killing of innocent unborn babies to volunteer soldiers dying for our country? WOW!

Not surprised that you cant understand my point so I will bolden it for you...Try to stay with me:

Volunteer soldiers do not volunteer to die to save the legacy of a failed President!

Devil5052 wrote:

spc wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:2. I am Pro-Choice to the extent that I feel that it is the height of hypocrisy to claim you are pro-life but then to have no problem sending innocent GI's to their death to defend the honor/Historical Standing of your Presidency, which I feel is GW Bush's intention.

I gotta step in here. You are comparing the killing of innocent unborn babies to volunteer soldiers dying for our country? WOW!

Not surprised that you cant understand my point so I will bolden it for you...Try to stay with me:

Volunteer soldiers do not volunteer to die to save the legacy of a failed President!

So these men & woman that are enlisting & re-enlisting beyond DOD goals are what, delusional?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tment.html

spc wrote:Not surprised that you cant understand my point so I will bolden it for you...Try to stay with me:

Volunteer soldiers do not volunteer to die to save the legacy of a failed President!

So these men & woman that are enlisting & re-enlisting beyond DOD goals are what, delusional?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tment.html[/quote]


DOD goals have been drasticaly reduced just so they can report meeting/exceeding them, recruit standards have been reduced to the point that they are recruiting criminals right out of jail & DOD is paying huge $$$$$$$ "Incdentives" (bribes) to keep GI's in the service.
Wake up man, & turn off Fox News every so often!

Devil5052 wrote:

spc wrote:Not surprised that you cant understand my point so I will bolden it for you...Try to stay with me:

Volunteer soldiers do not volunteer to die to save the legacy of a failed President!

So these men & woman that are enlisting & re-enlisting beyond DOD goals are what, delusional?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tment.html

Devil5052 wrote:DOD goals have been drasticaly reduced just so they can report meeting/exceeding them, recruit standards have been reduced to the point that they are recruiting criminals right out of jail & DOD is paying huge $$$$$$$ "Incdentives" (bribes) to keep GI's in the service.
Wake up man, & turn off Fox News every so often!

I'll try again. So these men & woman that are enlisting & re-enlisting beyond DOD goals are what, delusional?