Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed May 28, 2008 1:11 am

Ad hominum attacks: 2

Substantive responses: 0

BTW, you'll always find a prior insult directed at me before any response like those quoted above.

And Richard, you're wrong. :P
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: coalkirk On: Wed May 28, 2008 6:40 am

Your full of crap. Go back to Ed A's post (pg.18) just before you called him a loon and show me where he insulated you. Damn, first the sainted clintons exposed as liars and phonies, now stockingfull. I just don't know what to believe in any more. :?
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed May 28, 2008 12:16 pm

coalkirk wrote:Your full of crap. Go back to Ed A's post (pg.18) just before you called him a loon and show me where he insulated you. Damn, first the sainted clintons exposed as liars and phonies, now stockingfull. I just don't know what to believe in any more. :?


"LIB-Stalin-Dem" isn't an insult?

Get Scott McClellan's book and then go commit yourself, because you really won't know what to believe in anymore.
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: coalkirk On: Wed May 28, 2008 1:59 pm

stockingfull wrote:
coalkirk wrote:Your full of crap. Go back to Ed A's post (pg.18) just before you called him a loon and show me where he insulated you. Damn, first the sainted clintons exposed as liars and phonies, now stockingfull. I just don't know what to believe in any more. :?


"LIB-Stalin-Dem" isn't an insult?

Get Scott McClellan's book and then go commit yourself, because you really won't know what to believe in anymore.

Which part do you find insulting? Oh that's right. The new venacular is progressive-stalin-dem. I'll include that in the next right wing nut job talking points memo. OK, point for you, I missed that one. :oops:
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: stockingfull On: Wed May 28, 2008 2:44 pm

You cavemen just don't get it: you can't invoke Stalin, Hitler or the Klan and expect the debate to remain respectful, any more than with the much less subtle personal stuff you've been slinging lately.

But no matter, your points are all lame anyway.
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed May 28, 2008 3:26 pm

Only when it proves a point that contradicts what you suggest,,, BTW I'm still waiting for what your suggestion is. All I've heard so far is wind. I find it humorous that you will not directly address anyone of the points anyone will make, you ever consider running for office? You'd be a natural.

I think I've pretty much done that throughout any of these debates we've had. Quite well I might add.. I'm assuming the Hitler crack was pointed at me? I didn't bring Hitler himself into this conversation, I brought Chamberlain into this conversation who had the same ideas as you. The subject of his stupidity is really irrelevant.
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: BugsyR On: Thu May 29, 2008 11:50 am

stockingfull wrote:You cavemen just don't get it: you can't invoke Stalin, Hitler or the Klan and expect the debate to remain respectful, any more than with the much less subtle personal stuff you've been slinging lately.

But no matter, your points are all lame anyway.


The first time you'll find Hitler and Stalin and others used in this thread as an insult to an individual/individuals is back on page 15. You're right...using those names in an insulting manner were lame back then too. As for "respectful", this debate never started out as respectful...see page 1.

Other than that, while looking over the past I ran into some other things. One I want to point out in order to defend my military. I don't know why I didn't respond back then, maybe I missed it, or wasn't in the mood, or hey...could've been drunk...or on another planet...maybe I was shaving my neanderthal Christian back??? :lol:

Back on page 16 a discussion was had about felons getting waivers to join. I didn't get to read the news report about it but judging by some questions asked about what type of felonies these people committed and were found guilty of, I assume the report didn't give the whole picture. Did the news report mention if anyone of those waivers was given to a person that was actively serving time and got out of jail just because he joined the military? Because that I am against and also I have never heard of.

As for allowing waivers for convicted felons...that's nothing new.
If you never joined or attempted to join the military you wouldn't know about how waivers may be needed or work for the good.
I support felons being given waivers in order to recieve the chance to serve in the military. Reading those posts back on page 16 a picture of "Mass Murderers" and convicted "serial Rapists" is painted. The seriously "BAD" convicted felons will probably be too old to join the military when they get out of the Big House or be UN-waivable (that's not a word...I just made it up...sounds funny though..."unwaivable" :) )

I have reason to support it because I have the experience behind me to support it and I am damn proud today of my experiences in supporting it. One shipmate tried to get into a few Police Academies after his first enlistment but was denied because of his past...felonies. So he stayed smart and stayed in. I'll say this much, I'm happy he was turned down by those academies because 2 years ago he made Chief Petty Officer (E-7). I just wish I was there to see him have his Anchors pinned on.

Even if the military didn't allow felons in, the military would still have it's criminals. Proof...there are reasons why specific spaces on warships are labelled "Brig". Bigger the ship...bigger the Brig...not fun to be in. Also, looking at the whole situation, if Joe Felon decides he wants to continue his Felon-ish ways in the military, they normally learn that they would have been better off staying in the civilian criminal world where they have the "right" to have lawyers willing and ready to defend them.
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu May 29, 2008 12:51 pm

Maybe I was unclear: I'm not against discussing Hitler or Stalin or the Klan; to the contrary, I think the cultural phobia about them keeps us from realizing how insidious the politics which can lead to those results can be.

What I was saying was that when somebody essentially calls somebody else's opinion that of a "LIB-Stalin-Dem", they can't be very surprised that their insult is taken for what it was.

Richard, I set out my plan above. And you should be more aware than anybody here that everything here is wind. But, to state it again in brief, we have to negotiate with both our friends and our enemies. To our enemies, we show them how much more advantageous is would be to be our friend, and explain what it would take to get there. If they don't buy in, we stay ready to defend ourselves, if necessary by military means. Not preemptively attack, but defend. The "Bush Doctrine" is plainly illegal; you can't invade a country before it has invaded another country. Or because they might be developing a weapon you don't like. And, even if it weren't, why haven't we attacked North Korea? Hell, they've declared that they have a nuclear weapon -- they've even tested one -- plus, we have our troops are right there.

Bush is so stupid, he doesn't even know what "appeasement" is. "Appeasement" is allowing the sacrifice of another country to go unopposed on the theory, or promise, that there will be no more. Talking to an adversary is decidedly NOT "appeasement"; if it were, Ronnie Ray-guns would have been guilty of it for merely talking to Mike Gorbachev. Bush is either a dope or a plainly evil man. I prefer to believe the former.

Bottom line: we're now viewed as a windbag, overextended bully of a nation, which has lost sight of our own principles in our zeal for an oil fix. McCain admitted it when he said he'd have an energy policy which would make it unnecessary to go to war for oil ever again. He's half right; we need to have that energy policy AND we need to bring our boys and our dollars the hell outta there, sooner rather than later. Oh, and shut down Gitmo and the rendering program and the other things that we do that are more like Hitler or Stalin than we'd like to admit. Hunt Osama in Afghanistan? Sure, in fact not nearly enough effort has been made on that front.

But Iraq (and the Iran saber-rattling) are just the last death-rasps of the neocons. And thank god for that.
Last edited by stockingfull on Thu May 29, 2008 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu May 29, 2008 12:58 pm

BugsyR wrote:
stockingfull wrote:You cavemen just don't get it: you can't invoke Stalin, Hitler or the Klan and expect the debate to remain respectful, any more than with the much less subtle personal stuff you've been slinging lately.

But no matter, your points are all lame anyway.


The first time you'll find Hitler and Stalin and others used in this thread as an insult to an individual/individuals is back on page 15. You're right...using those names in an insulting manner were lame back then too. As for "respectful", this debate never started out as respectful...see page 1.

Other than that, while looking over the past I ran into some other things. One I want to point out in order to defend my military. I don't know why I didn't respond back then, maybe I missed it, or wasn't in the mood, or hey...could've been ....."drunk...or on another planet...maybe I was shaving my neanderthal Christian back??? :lol:

Back on page 16 a discussion was had about felons getting waivers to join. I didn't get to read the news report about it but judging by some questions asked about what type of felonies these people committed and were found guilty of, I assume the report didn't give the whole picture. Did the news report mention if anyone of those waivers was given to a person that was actively serving time and got out of jail just because he joined the military? Because that I am against and also I have never heard of.

As for allowing waivers for convicted felons...that's nothing new.
If you never joined or attempted to join the military you wouldn't know about how waivers may be needed or work for the good.
I support felons being given waivers in order to recieve the chance to serve in the military. Reading those posts back on page 16 a picture of "Mass Murderers" and convicted "serial Rapists" is painted. The seriously "BAD" convicted felons will probably be too old to join the military when they get out of the Big House or be UN-waivable (that's not a word...I just made it up...sounds funny though..."unwaivable" :) )

I have reason to support it because I have the experience behind me to support it and I am damn proud today of my experiences in supporting it. One shipmate tried to get into a few Police Academies after his first enlistment but was denied because of his past...felonies. So he stayed smart and stayed in. I'll say this much, I'm happy he was turned down by those academies because 2 years ago he made Chief Petty Officer (E-7). I just wish I was there to see him have his Anchors pinned on.

Even if the military didn't allow felons in, the military would still have it's criminals. Proof...there are reasons why specific spaces on warships are labelled "Brig". Bigger the ship...bigger the Brig...not fun to be in. Also, looking at the whole situation, if Joe Felon decides he wants to continue his Felon-ish ways in the military, they normally learn that they would have been better off staying in the civilian criminal world where they have the "right" to have lawyers willing and ready to defend them.[/quote


In re the felons portion of this thread Mike, I will just restate my main point in bringing it up in this thread:

......."I agree with you (in re the non-violent crimes) if put forth by an administration who's intent was to help young, redeemable felons regain their lives. This is hardly the intent of this crew who are only interested in being able to publicly claim that they are meeting their recruitment goals. In this case, they are merely "using" these young felons for their own morally corrupt political purposes with no regard whatsoever to trying to help these young felons or the possible damage this policy may do to our military. Indefensible in my view!"


Edit: Bold type used to show the response, not for emphasis


To prove my point, I offer these two photos:
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu May 29, 2008 1:08 pm

LOL.....OK..Those pics have absolutely nothing to do with this thread but I just love posting them~!! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: BugsyR On: Thu May 29, 2008 3:04 pm

Devil5052 wrote:LOL.....OK..Those pics have absolutely nothing to do with this thread but I just love posting them~!! :lol: :lol:


Nice Coal!!! I think I saw those same pics in another thread!! :lol:

This is hardly the intent of this crew who are only interested in being able to publicly claim that they are meeting their recruitment goals. In this case, they are merely "using" these young felons for their own morally corrupt political purposes with no regard whatsoever to trying to help these young felons or the possible damage this policy may do to our military.


That I take is your opinion.
I wouldn't worry about that policy damaging our military...we police our own...and are much more strict that the civilian sector. ;)

You and the media can twist the recruitment as much as ya want...fine with me...I will defend though ;)
If it WAS negative intent by an administration, I can easily take a bet that at least half of those felons will learn how good it is to have a second chance. So therefore if 50% lead fruitful lives gained from that second chance...something good came out of it. :)

Still can't figure out how I missed those posts though!
Last edited by BugsyR on Thu May 29, 2008 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: BugsyR On: Thu May 29, 2008 3:18 pm

stockingfull wrote: The "Bush Doctrine" is plainly illegal; ...


Once again as in so many past posts...here is a President being accused of doing crime...by a lawyer...and yet Congress is filled with lawyers...and none of them can find a single crime to START an impeachment! Why are we so smart here in this forum and we have a bunch of bumbling baboons sitting on Capitol Hill? I still say IF he committed such a huge crime WHY aren't the CLINTONs at least screaming their heads off to get GW impeached? Hmmm...maybe it's because he didn't commit any crimes that todays Congress can nab him on? Here is supposedly one of the dumbest Presidents we have had but yet NO ONE is smart enough to start an impeachment...go figure!
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu May 29, 2008 3:32 pm

BugsyR wrote:.and yet Congress is filled with lawyers...


How true, last figure I read it was hovering around 50%.
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu May 29, 2008 4:24 pm

BugsyR wrote:
stockingfull wrote: The "Bush Doctrine" is plainly illegal; ...


Once again as in so many past posts...here is a President being accused of doing crime...by a lawyer...and yet Congress is filled with lawyers...and none of them can find a single crime to START an impeachment! Why are we so smart here in this forum and we have a bunch of bumbling baboons sitting on Capitol Hill? I still say IF he committed such a huge crime WHY aren't the CLINTONs at least screaming their heads off to get GW impeached? Hmmm...maybe it's because he didn't commit any crimes that todays Congress can nab him on? Here is supposedly one of the dumbest Presidents we have had but yet NO ONE is smart enough to start an impeachment...go figure!



It's not a question of lacking evidence Mike.....It's a question of not having the guts to do it! (The Dems are afraid of a political backlash that would cost them elections.....Disgusting really!)
I am not a lawyer Mike, but I have worked very closely with the AUSA's of the Justice Dept over the years & I'll bet you that I could get a conviction in Federal Court on Obstruction Of Justice charges relating to the politically motivated firings of US Attorneys alone. (A felony under U.S. laws)
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Re: Iraq Spinning Out Of Control....Again!

PostBy: BugsyR On: Fri May 30, 2008 9:01 am

Devil5052 wrote:It's not a question of lacking evidence Mike.....It's a question of not having the guts to do it! (The Dems are afraid of a political backlash that would cost them elections.....Disgusting really!)
I am not a lawyer Mike, but I have worked very closely with the AUSA's of the Justice Dept over the years & I'll bet you that I could get a conviction in Federal Court on Obstruction Of Justice charges relating to the politically motivated firings of US Attorneys alone. (A felony under U.S. laws)


Sorry, but I can't even buy that reason either. "Political Backlash"? Senators and Representatives swear to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic". If it can be clearly demonstrated that Bush violated the Constitution then they are obligated to follow the impeachment process. If they obstruct the process to protect their party then they can be charged with violating their oath. Seems to me that Bush is not the only criminal/felon in DC. Therefore, he is not solely the one responsible for the country's problems today. He's merely a "fall guy" for major Congressional mistakes and blunders. I can understand why he wasn't impeached prior to 2006, I don't understand why Congress hasn't pursued impeachment since.

Personally, with Bush's ratings so low right now, I would think that the US of A would rise up and rejoice if our esteemed Congress would do something about our percieved criminal of a President. I do not apply much educated thought to this process mostly just human common sense...(or I should say Mike's Common Sense, which is normally whacked :) )...but personally the way I truly see it is if one Democrat, Libertarian, Constitutionist, Reformist, Independent, etc, took the reins of the band wagon, and successfully came up with something that clearly demonstarates that Bush violated the Constitution, and started the impeachment process, and fights for that impeachment, and is successful...that individual would probably be able to write his/her own ticket into ANY political office. Until someone does it...I'll continue to believe that he has not committed any violations of the Constitution.

Hey....I'll take your bet!!!





Just joking :)
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