The Enemy

Islam wants to rule the world. Look at what our children & grandchildren will have to fight. This movie should open our eyes.

The Dutch government had to raise its national terroristic threat level from the status 'limited terroristic threat' to 'substantial terroristic threat' because of the release of this films. This movie is 16 minutes.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

They removed the movie from LiveLeak because of serious threats.
Below is another link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5410&hl=en

Going to watch it now but I've been following this for other reasons, Netsol suspended the movies site a few days ago due to complaints about the upcoming release: http://www.fitnathemovie.com/

From the pre release information i've read they are going to go off their rockers.

Richard S. wrote:From the pre release information i've read they are going to go off their rockers.

From what I heard on the radio, OBL is going to have a fit. Europe is going to have big grief with this one.

Oh man!! When I saw the title of your thread I thought the first post was just going to be my photo!! Am I relieved!!

I would recommend any of you political junkies to watch the Frontline piece callled Bush's War. It was on PBS earlier in the week but can be watched at PBS.org. It's divided up into video segments about 10-12 minutes long. Very interesting and informative. I thought I knew all about the run up to the war but there was alot going on I was never aware of like a power struggle between CIA and DOD that was the reason that OBL got away at Tora Bora. It's long but worth the time to watch. Go to PBS.org or google Frontline Bush's War. Recommended for liberals and conservatives.

Frontline is probably one of the few shows on TV I look forward to watching. Bush's War can be found here:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/

Islam: What the West Needs to Know:
1 hr 39 min

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=1

U.N. Secretary-General condemns Dutch film (1st post) as anti-Islamic.
No free speech if it offends Islam. But offending Christians is OK?

"U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Friday condemned as “offensively anti-Islamic” a Dutch lawmaker’s film that accuses the Koran of inciting violence.

Ban acknowledged efforts by the government of the Netherlands to stop the broadcast of the film, which was launched by Islam critic Geert Wilders over the Internet, and appealed for calm to those “understandably offended by it.”

“There is no justification for hate speech or incitement to violence,” Ban said in a statement. “The right of free expression is not at stake here.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNew ... =worldNews

Incitement to violence. Ha!

I haven't watched all of it (the new Wilders film) yet, but what I have seen looks like a simple exposition of the, shall we say, "excesses" of certain militant muslims.

That's like saying the broadcast of "A Time to Kill" is an incitement of Clan violence. It is completely wrongheaded.

Incitement to violence means directly advocating and/or asking others to commit violent acts, such as the AQ terrorist recruitment videos that show "loyal" and "devout" muslims sniping US troops or cutting off the heads of kidnap victims with a dull knife, and then advocate for jihad or UBL's cause or whatever the case may be. That's incitement to violence.

It isn't an issue of free-speech? Of course it is. Just because there's a group of people out there with a perpetually cocked gun and a hair trigger just waiting for someone to offend their ever more delicate sensibilities doesn't make actually offending those people an incitement to violence and it certainly is, at least in this country, an example of protected speech.

The UN may have its purposes, but a guide for moral or ethical righteousness it is not.

I have not watched any of the suggested videos yet, but I can say this:
The radical Muslims believe that anybody who does not believe as they do is the enemy and is to be killed.
The fight against these people has only just begun. They also seem to have infinite patience. It irritates me to no end how the focus in the mass media has turned away from this and is more focused on how Hillary has just revised an event in her past to fit her agenda, or Obama and his idiot Minister, or McCain saying he will close Club Gitmo if elected.
These people want to kill each and every one of us, it's only a matter of time before they strike again. That's where the focus should be.

Radical groups only find traction when the people they are appealing to are faced with desperate circumstances.

Hitler after Versailles, the Palestinians and Israel, the Bolsheviks and the Tsar, those are the examples that readily come to mind.

Now that the Cold War is over, we're the last heavyweight around. When we staged our troops in Saudi Arabia for Operation Desert Storm, OBL and the boyz resolved to purge us from their homeland, the country of their religious shrine, Mecca. They believe we have desecrated their religious homeland for our material gain. There's really no point in debating the niceties of whether they're right or wrong, the simple fact is that the basis for their belief is there as long as we are.

So maybe it's time to try something different. Like getting the flock outta there.

If we don't like what they do after we leave, we've got the most powerful naval, air and amphibious forces in the history of man to monitor and intervene, should that ever be necessary.

Right or wrong is not the issue, I stated what they believe, and they will follow that belief. We can leave their holy land but the attacks against anyone who doesn't agree with what they believe will continue.

Wood'nCoal wrote:Right or wrong is not the issue, I stated what they believe, and they will follow that belief. We can leave their holy land but the attacks against anyone who doesn't agree with what they believe will continue.

There will always be radicals, in every form of belief, religious, political, whatever.

What we have to learn here is how to undermine their support. We've tried it the "brute force" way, I think the people are ready for another approach.

stockingfull wrote:

Wood'nCoal wrote:Right or wrong is not the issue, I stated what they believe, and they will follow that belief. We can leave their holy land but the attacks against anyone who doesn't agree with what they believe will continue.

There will always be radicals, in every form of belief, religious, political, whatever.

What we have to learn here is how to undermine their support. We've tried it the "brute force" way, I think the people are ready for another approach.

Agreed. But what kind of approach?

Wood'nCoal wrote:

stockingfull wrote:

Wood'nCoal wrote:Right or wrong is not the issue, I stated what they believe, and they will follow that belief. We can leave their holy land but the attacks against anyone who doesn't agree with what they believe will continue.

There will always be radicals, in every form of belief, religious, political, whatever.

What we have to learn here is how to undermine their support. We've tried it the "brute force" way, I think the people are ready for another approach.

Agreed. But what kind of approach?

Finally; something worth discussing.

My starting point is the concept of disarming the radicals from being able to point to "occupation" or "oppression" or "torture" or "gulags" as they try to whip up support by taking those things away.

We're plenty strong enough to control the Persian Gulf without being on their "sacred land."

But the first step is to get out of the "Chinese finger trap" of insisting on a clearly outmoded concept of military "victory." This is an unconventional challenge -- it will require unconventional resourcefulness to address it. So far, that's been sorely lacking.