I've Got the Hunting Bug...

Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:42 pm

My goal when sighting something in is to maximize the distance that you can cover without having to make an allowance over or under the desired area of impact. For many calibers, that is 2.5" high at 100 yards.

This article discusses it well, and the second link has the trajectory information for most popular calibers.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sight-in_rifle.htm

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm
Rob R.
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Ky Speedracer On: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:16 pm

Wow Rob! That site is loaded with info. I've spent the last 2 hours searching and reading topics.
The "How to Sight in a Rifle", "Bore Sight a Rifle" and "Rifle Trajectory Table" basically answered everything I wanted to know. Not often I get answers to all my questions... :D
Thanks!
Ky Speedracer
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:07 am

Glad you enjoyed it. The amount of information they have is unreal.
Rob R.
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:32 am

Rob R. wrote:
coalder wrote:I just found it funny because so many people have told her its too small a caliber for deer when she first started. In the past 15yrs I bet she has 30 kills at least.


You can easily kill a whitetail with a .22 if the shot is placed correctly. My mom used to hunt with a .243, it gets the job done on whitetail...but like I said before, they tend to run quite a bit farther when things aren't ideal. That was never a problem when hunting on our own land, or on a large piece of property that we had permission to hunt on...but it really sucks when your prize buck runs over on the neighbors land who is totally opposed to hunting.

He showed me two photos of two grizzly's he took with that gun. Both neck shots. However please don't ever underestimate the .243 and or marksmanship.


There is a big difference between "killing" and "stopping". No one is under estimating shot placement, but I'd be surprised if you could find a guide in Alaska that would take you out with a .243. Same way in Newfoundland, many locals like to shoot moose in the head with a .30-30...but most guides won't take you out with one.

I am not trying to argue for big calibers, just saying you need to know what you are getting into before you buy something.


The newer ballistic tip hunting bullets have "tipped" the scales to help smaller calibers which for many shooters the light recoil makes them more accurate for the shooter. The .243 is one of those calibers that exhibits better than average accuracy.

Todays ballistic tip hunting bullets have reduced that hit and run problem of older ammo that doesn't expand as well thus causing as much internal damage that gets quicker kills.

With the doe my daughter just got, it was looking right at her. She put the Winchester 95 gr balletic tip up the doe's nose at 80 yards. The bullet never exited the doe's head. It explosively expended all it's energy inside the skull turning everything to mush, that was bleeding out of both ears, nostrils, and mouth. But not so much as a mark on the back of the skull.

None of my shotgun sabot slugs could match that quick a kill. And even with the best sabot slugs through my rifled slug barrels, that Savage .243 has far better accuracy.

I use 53 gr Hornady .223 ballistic tips on woodchucks and the terminal affects are devastating. What's left of the chucks is on a par with what only larger calibers used to be able to do to that sized critter.

My 12 and 20 ga slug guns can't equal the range, accuracy, and retained energy downrange of that little flat-shooting .243. Add to that the lethality of the new hunting ammo, at half the cost of deer slugs and it's a winning combo.

And that lower cost of ammo combined with less recoil equates to the shooter is more likely to spend time becoming proficient with that gun.

Bigger calibers used to be better for hunting, but that's no longer the case and the new .243s are proving to be one of those instances.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:59 am

Sunny Boy wrote:Bigger calibers used to be better for hunting, but that's no longer the case


Paul, I am quite familiar with ballistic tips, and agree that the .243 is an excellent performer...but would you really bring it on an elk hunt? If so, you are more comfortable with it than I am...and that is fine. Anytime you pick a single caliber for multiple types and sizes of game it is a compromise. At the end of the day it needs to be something that the shooter is comfortable with...and if you are on a guided hunt in a different state or country, the caliber needs to be meet any local rules/regulations.

I agree with you on the recoil and ammo cost part. I sighted in my brother's .300 Weatherby a few years ago. $4 per round, and a dam sore shoulder afterwards.

For woodchucks and coyotes we have a .22-250.
Rob R.
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Ky Speedracer On: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:01 pm

I took a look at the ballistic/trajectory data of the .243 versus the .270. They are very similar. Both a very flat shooters.
I guess it all boils down to how much recoil do you feel comfortable with.
To Rob's point, it seems that most people that elk hunt consider the .270 to be about the smallest caliber that they would use for that.
Ky Speedracer
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: coalder On: Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:11 pm

Hey bud, Just try this, now remember my son Austin is a sniper in the army, but he brought my technique to the field. Not saying it is scribed in stone. However; just give it a try. Sight your rifle dead on at 50 yds the distance between reticles & bore should be about 1 1/4 inches. with a .270 that should put you at Plus1.5 " at 100 yds & almost dead on at 200 yds. Spank me ifn I'm wrong. :D
Jim
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:03 pm

I agree, pick for the largest game you know your going after. That's why I picked the 308 over the 270. Big enough, but less recoil.

I just don't want you to underestimate some smaller calibers, based on any old advice. The new bullets allow them to take bigger game that some old timers still say they can't do. But you often find that those old timers haven't shot the new ammo and seen the results. Such as years back, the .243 was not considered sufficient for deer by many hunters and it still isn't by some. But then you hear about all the deer successfully taken with a .243 and it's tough to argue with such high numbers.

So now, thanks to improvements in ammo in recent years even the biggest white tails are no problem for what used to be considered 270 was minimum for that sized game.

And for anyone who is the least bit sensitive to recoil going to bigger calibers is often counter productive.

As to your question about barrel length, the differences are not great. The Savage model 11/111 come with a 22 inch barrel. Many test barrels are only 24 inch, so your not losing much speed, if any.

Some test show about a 14 FPS drop in speed with every inch less of the same barrel, using the same ammo. Reason I underlined the words "same" is because some manufactures barrels are not as "tight" as others and the rifling is not cut the same. Those differences sometimes affects bullet speed.

And some bullets are not affected by barrel length depending on how fast burning the powder is. If the powder completely burns up before the bullet gets to the muzzle, there's nothing to be gained with a longer barrel.

Examples;
1. My 308 model 11 shoots the 150 gr SST Hornady Superformance at an average of 3043 for 20 rounds with a spread of only 21fps. Hornady lists that round as 3000 fps in their tests.

2. The Hornady 30 gr V-max 22 mag shoots faster in my Savage 93 then they list that also.

3. However, in my Mod 11 .223, the 53gr Hornady Superformance shoot about 100 FPS slower - but that gun is older and has had several thousand rounds down the tube.

With those same three guns, using CCI and Federal ammo, they all shoot quite a bit slower than the bullet makers listed speeds.

So you see, depending on which ammo the gun likes, you may not lose any speed with that 22 inch barrel.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: wilder11354 On: Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:02 pm

Rem 700 .243, fed cartridge, sierra 100gr SPBT bullet,CCI primer, varget powder, Home loads, scope sighted 100 yards for this load, nickel size groups 3 shot groups, shot to deer about 45 yards. Bullet hit rib entering, NO EXIT hole. Lung/heart cavity blood soup with a few small chunks.
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Still want to get a winchester 70 series,(mid 70's to early 80's) 243 or 7MM mag. just like feel,safety action, stocks better on Winchesters.
I also use this same rifle for fall turkey, with winchester brass, Nosler 55Gr ST Ballistic bullet, cci primers, varegt or 8028XBR powder, its shoots 8" higher than deer loads, so reset scope at 100 yds, dime size groups, 3 round groups. no turkey yet, but it will be a head shoot when I have the chance.
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: stovehospital On: Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:36 pm

Everyone has given good advice. I like several guns. Strictly personal but they work for me. Others will like other guns ----that's why they make a zillion calibers.
If I am hunting in the east and ranges are under about 125 yards I take a Remington model 14 in 35 Remington. 200 grain bullet at 2200 fps is enough for anything east of the Mississippi. Little recoil and great terminal effects.
Longer ranges I like a good 270 Win. Don't buy into the super mags we have around today. A 270 Win. with 130 grain bullets will do almost anything. Out to 300 yards it is just the ticket. A good man with a .243 can do almost the same thing. Bullet placement is everything. I just happen to have a 270 Win. that is right on the money.
I have a friend that buys every new magnum on the block. He complained that a deer he shot with a 270 walked 4 steps before dropping. Now he has a custom 338 magnum for no reason that makes sense. I can't use it because of the recoil. It also chews up some of the meat.
Get something comfortable for you that is good for many situations. Get good with it and you are set for life.
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: wilder11354 On: Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:53 am

stovehospital wrote:I have a friend that buys every new magnum on the block. He complained that a deer he shot with a 270 walked 4 steps before dropping. Now he has a custom 338 magnum for no reason that makes sense. I can't use it because of the recoil. It also chews up some of the meat.
Get something comfortable for you that is good for many situations. Get good with it and you are set for life.


all deer I've taken with 243 don't just fall over, they will travel, but usually no more than about 20>30 yards max!! If its not a clean heart/lung shot I won't shoot. get to local ranges, practice and practice... firing off a few hundred rounds between seasons, in all wind, weather conditions you might encounter while hunting. Know about how winds/rain change the bullets travel.
wilder11354
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Ky Speedracer On: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:25 am

Nice deer Wilder...congrats!
I took my new Savage .270 out Saturday. I was only able to put 4 rounds through it. It was nice day out and just seemed to be a lot of people out in the vicinity of where we usually shoot. We switched to hand guns for the rest of the day.
The 4 rounds were 130 grain Hornady. I visually bore sighted it first and then put all 4 rounds in about 1.5" group at 100 yards right out of the box. They were all 4 just a smidge high and left of center. Maybe around 3". I'll need to sight it in a little and run a couple boxes through it soon and tighten my grouping up.
The gun felt really good. It has a little bump when you fire but not at all what I would consider a pounder. I had a sweat shirt on and felt like I could put a 100 rounds through it without any problem. The Accu-trigger on the savage is sweet. Broke it in a surprise on all 4 shots. The Nikon scope is very clear and clean. So far I'm very happy with this purchase.

Also, I registered for the 2016 KY elk draw on Saturday. They draw for tags in May. Last year had around 30,000 people register for 1000 tags. Fingers crossed!
Ky Speedracer
 
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Logs On: Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:43 am

Good choice with the 270 , I think you will be very happy with the results. That being said if you REAY want a thrill , try one of these. :)

http://www.chiefaj.com/index.htm
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:40 am

Don't use Fed Fusion. There is not enough expansion. From personal experience.
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Re: I've got the hunting bug...

PostBy: Ky Speedracer On: Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:52 am

Logs wrote:Good choice with the 270 , I think you will be very happy with the results. That being said if you REAY want a thrill , try one of these. :)

http://www.chiefaj.com/index.htm


Chief AJ is quite the character...
I think I'll probably stick with the .270. It has a bit more range... ;)
Ky Speedracer
 
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