WOW!!!!

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:37 pm

Greg , right now I'm using a 10' piece of 1" copper inside a piece Of 1 1/4" copper as a heat exchanger.The loop coming from the coal boiler outside flows in the 1" before it hits the boiler. The domestic flows thru the bigger pipe. The temp is controlled by throttling down the domestic. Not the high tech but still effective untill I get the 80 gallon boiler mate piped in. Right now the coal boiler is piped in like it is an additional zone. The only difference being that it runs constantly. I guess that would make them in parallel. Before next fall I would like to put a short pipe between the supply header and return header and run a close tee configuration there. To isolate the oil fired would be a simple matter of a boiler switch being turned off and a valve turned.It' not the setup you would use, and I understand why, but we never leave the house for long periods of time. I do agree simplest is hard to beat. Stay warm :) Scott
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:52 am

Hi Scott, like I've written many times, each system is different, and that 'pipe-within-a-pipe' heat exchanger is 'different' for sure !! :)

My loop from my heat exchangers out to the coal boiler circulates constantly like yours, so I'm not sure where your question comes from about summer use of a series 'simple' system. With your system, and mine, the coal heated water is always available to heat domestic water.. In a system with both boilers in the basement, plumbed in series, with a DHW coil in one of the boilers, the water would be kept hot, ready to heat water in the DHW coil. It just may not be circulating all the time.

You must have made up some 'creative' fittings to be able to enclose a sealed 1" tube within a larger tube and circulate separate water systems through each.. I use a 30 plate, water-to-water heat exchanger for my DHW...

Greg L

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LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:07 am

Image

Your building a "Hot Rod"

All it takes is a reducing tee on each end

It slides over the "inside pipe" and is soldered the same time the "outside" pipe is

You can make these any length - but normally they are the center to center distance on the Hot Water heater ports you use to induce gravity convection.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

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Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:23 am

What do you do with the inside solder joint at the reducing tee?? have the inside 1" in half of the 1" female reduced portion of the tee? And use the remaining half of the solder joint for the external connection?? I guess many of the current reducing tee's would allow a pipe to be inserted from inside,, but a lot have a bump or a machined ridge to stop the outside pipe from entering too far,, this could be cut away or machined away pretty easlily... to allow a pipe to be inserted from the inside of the tee.. ??

I wonder how well this 'system' compares to the plate exchangers... the plate exchangers have waves built into the plates to eliminate 'laminar flow' and to create turbulence in the exchanging water.. and the plates are only .020" or so apart.. They are amazingly efficient... and small.

Greg l
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:31 am

They work pretty good. I used a 1-1/2 inside a 3" to isolate my old outside wood boiler. There wasn't much of a temp loss across the two loops. Truth be told this is the economy model. I would prefer the plate exchanger. The little bumps are just filed down real easy. I'm just trying to isolate the two boilers during summer to keep the extra heat out of the basement. The 10' exchanger mounts up high on the joists and can easily be insulated. It's different. :) Scott
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:56 am

LsFarm wrote:I wonder how well this 'system' compares to the plate exchangers... the plate exchangers have waves built into the plates to eliminate 'laminar flow' and to create turbulence in the exchanging water.. and the plates are only .020" or so apart.


Nothing beats a plate and frame on efficiency, they can only do it on pricing.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:19 am

If you don't want to file you can stuff a bushing in the branch of the tee that you want to reduce

The pipe will slip thru that - but you have another joint to fail. 8-)
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:21 pm

Pretty creative.. Being such and el-cheapo, I'm ashamed I didn't think of it for my own applications... the plate exchangers are pricey... But I think I needed compact size regardless... I may go look at my stockpile of fittings and copper,,, I bet I have the makings of a 5'-7' version.. just don't know what I would use it for right now... maybe a Jacuzi tub.. but I'd have to buy the jacuzi first.. :lol: :lol: :D

Greg.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:17 pm

I scored a 6 foot "bubble" tub off eBay this fall and a pickup truck load of 7o inch windows.

I was pulling old drywall off in the cottage last weekend to frame for the new big wall of windows and to make a hole big enough to swing the tub in there.

But you will all hate me when I tell you -- I don't spend enough time there to nurse solid fuel ( except for the grill and fire pit) so I will heat it with a combination of a electric and NG DHW heaters in series.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:35 pm

Hey, if it didn't cost so much, I would burn propane and electric too... but this big old place just inhales BTU's .

I had a Jacuzi tub a few years ago.. I didn't use it enough to make it worthwhile and someone made an offer I couldnt' refuse.. so it went bye bye... now with almost free heat for it, I wish I had kept it..

Greg
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: WOW!!!!

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:26 pm

Sting wrote:Image

Your building a "Hot Rod"

All it takes is a reducing tee on each end

It slides over the "inside pipe" and is soldered the same time the "outside" pipe is

You can make these any length - but normally they are the center to center distance on the Hot Water heater ports you use to induce gravity convection.
This is a common heat exchanger design. An improvement in commercial products is to add a spiral of copper ribbon between the ID of the larger pipe and the OD of the smaller pipe. This creates turbulent flow and greatly improves heat transfer between the two fluids. There are many different designs to the copper ribbon. One is a course thread ribbon of copper with holes in it, another is a course thread but the copper ribbon has a twist in it. The basic idea of using standard reducing tee's can be extended to folded designs that look like a double manifold.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

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