Questiion for the Oil Burner Gurus

 
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coalkirk
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Post by coalkirk » Mon. Jan. 04, 2016 1:02 pm

In previous heating seasons, I've removed the vent pipe for my oil burner and disabled the burner so only the coal boiler was in use. (different chimney on the other side of the basement) I did this because I was losing so much heat up the oil burner chimney even though the oil burner wasn't firing. I felt the vent pipe and it was warm just from the hot water from the coal boiler flowing through the oil boiler. Now I have a new oil boiler that is more efficient and I want to leave the oil burner active. As it is set up if water temp drops below 165 the oil boiler will fire and run until the water is 180. This is all working well. For the most part the oil boiler never fires except during extreme weather or if multiple zones and the indirect water heater all call for heat at the same time.

Now my question. The rest of the time when the oil boiler is idle, I'm losing heat up that flue. I am considering a Field Controls automatic vent damper and wanted your opinions on their reliability and use. I see them quite often of gas fired boilers but rarely on oil. Thanks!

http://www.fieldcontrols.com/oil-vent-damper?page_id=93


 
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dbsuz05
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Post by dbsuz05 » Mon. Jan. 04, 2016 1:18 pm

I too have a oil boiler on a separate chimney. The oil boiler and vent pipe is warm. But I have never thought about the heat going up the chimney like that and losing heat! It must be because ive been warm and never had the need to look into it. Now im gonna take a look for curiosity! I will put a thermometer of some sort into the baro damper and see how much heat im losing. Although its prob not a bad thing for your chimney to have a little bit of heat in it anyways.
Once I see how many degrees the inside of my oil boiler flue pipe is ill write back on the forum.

 
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Ky Speedracer
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Post by Ky Speedracer » Mon. Jan. 04, 2016 1:21 pm

Are your appliances to far apart to connect to the same chimney?

I have my oil furnace and coal furnace connected to the same flue. It works very well. No damper needed. If the fire burns down when I'm gone for a day or so the oil furnace takes over...

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Scottscoaled
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Post by Scottscoaled » Mon. Jan. 04, 2016 5:15 pm

Wow! That looks like it would work well. Are they pretty pricey? That's a good solution for the problem. The other solution is to pipe into a primary/secondary system which can be major money. Looks like a better way for short money. You will be able to use your oil boiler to suppliment when it too cold for your coal boiler. Nice find! :)

 
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coalkirk
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Post by coalkirk » Mon. Jan. 04, 2016 6:48 pm

Scottscoaled wrote:Wow! That looks like it would work well. Are they pretty pricey? That's a good solution for the problem. The other solution is to pipe into a primary/secondary system which can be major money. Looks like a better way for short money. You will be able to use your oil boiler to suppliment when it too cold for your coal boiler. Nice find! :)
I saw it online for $162.00. All of my zones and indirect water heater are run off of the oil boiler. Don't want to change the boiler piping. Just had it all redone with shut offs installed for ease of maintenance. I pipe 1 1/4 from coal boiler to oil boiler and run the circulator constantly. It works great that way and when I croak, it will be easy for my wife to deal with.

My concerns with the oil damper are durability and fail safe. I see similar type dampers on gas boilers sticking. Usually when I see one fail, they fail in the open position. Wouldn't be good for an oil burner to fire with a closed vent. Just wonder what the real world experience is when they fail. How quickly does the sensor send a signal to shut down the burner? How long do they last. At $162.00 each they need to last a long time.

 
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Mon. Jan. 04, 2016 9:12 pm

You have the identical setup that I have here, Kirk.

I've got a buddy that runs one of those - he installed it over 10 years ago (right around when he showed it to me). I haven't talked to him in a long time, so not sure how the long term reliability is on those, but the thing worked great. I was in his basement when the thing cycled open, and I was thinking WTF was that??? :lol: A couple seconds later, the oil burner fired. I would expect that to be as reliable as most parts of an oil boiler are (or were - I have few new parts on mine).

If they built cars like oil burners, we'd all be very wealthy, and I'd be stress-free! :lol:

 
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Post by dbsuz05 » Mon. Jan. 04, 2016 9:45 pm

I checked my exhaust pipe temp with a thermometer for roasting turkey! Water temp was 110 degrees, pipe exhaust on the separate chimney with oil boiler read... 100 degrees! Im thinkin with my 45 foot chimney going up the center of my house im wasting some serious heat!
Id imagine as long as you have a perfectly tuned oil boiler, with a zero smoke trace. the "auto pipe damper" will last just as long as they do on gas boilers. Too much soot would certainly shorten its life.


 
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Post by Rob R. » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 7:53 am

What model oil burner do you have on the boiler? I ask because some them have an inlet air shutter that closes when the burner is not in use.

I have done a few winters with the flue pipe removed from my oil boiler, and didn't notice any difference in the amount of coal I burn. Personally I think it would take you a long time to recover the cost of the stack damper.

As for the temperature of the flue pipe, some of the heat is being conducted from the boiler block to the flue pipe. Try disconnecting the pipe from the chimney (disable the oil burner when you do this!) and see if the pipe is still warm in the same location.

 
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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 8:07 am

I disconnect mine every winter, and fill the void on top of the oil boiler with newspaper. Still, those oil boilers aren't very well insulated - that thing bleeds heat big time ... from everywhere.

 
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BlackBetty06
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Post by BlackBetty06 » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 4:22 pm

I personally would not recommend an auto vent damper on an oil boiler. I see them fail regularly on gas fired equipment. Add some oil soot to the mix and they probably will last even less. They can fail in either position. Sometimes they fail continuously rotating. They use an end switch that closes a set of contacts when the damper is in the open position allowing the circuit to make and the burner to fire.

 
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BlackBetty06
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Post by BlackBetty06 » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 4:24 pm

Another idea is isolation valves on the oil boiler if you are able to pipe it up.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 5:05 pm

BlackBetty06 wrote:Another idea is isolation valves on the oil boiler if you are able to pipe it up.
That would goof up his plans for an automatic standby oil boiler,wouldn't it ?

 
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Post by hotblast1357 » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 5:07 pm

He could use zone valves and wire them accordingly.

 
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Post by coaledsweat » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 6:52 pm

Even an unfired boiler will have a draft giving up heat.

 
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Post by BlackBetty06 » Tue. Jan. 05, 2016 7:04 pm

Yes like HB said about zone valves/electric valves. you could wire them through a temperature switch with close on temperature fall contacts and set it at whatever's temp you would want the oil to kick in to supplement.
Ex-
Temp falls below 140 or whatever temp. set point. Contacts close passing power to the valves which then open the valves allowing flow through the boiler. You would also probably want to wire the boiler aquastat through a relay that would only enable the boiler to operate when the valves are open.


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