Year 2-Still Freezing

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 10:58 am

larryfoster wrote:I have no over fire air all day, BTW.
Only under fire
You do have over fire air which is bled off from the primary air through those two gaps front and back. That is probably why there is a need to supply more primary air to get enough heat.

The best way would be to close those gaps and supply secondary air separately as Lightning and KY speedracer have done.

Once volatiles have been burnt off a fan will only make things worse as it calls for heat and blows over the bed of coals and just cools things off. The coke remaining needs under fire air at that point.


 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 11:15 am

I plugged the front off yesterday.

I suspect that was a contributing factor in today's results.

Haven't figured out how to get at the back since I'm neither skinny enough nor have long enough arms to get back there.

You saved me $200 and more aggravation as I would have had to chase down more rabbit holes and put up with the coal chauvinists.
8-)

Just kidding guys

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 11:26 am

Unless and until you make provision for separate over fire air it probably is best to leave that rear gap.

The problem is with a fresh load you get a large quantity of gas which if not burned turns to smoke and soot and if burned you get a volcano until it burns up. That's why a stoker meant for that coal feeds a small quantity steadily to cope with it. Feeding little and often minimizes the problem.

 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 11:32 am

Unless and until you make provision for separate over fire air it probably is best to leave that rear gap.
For provision, should it be the slider on the door or just leave the gap in the back?

Up until now, I never got a volcano effect.
It would just sit there until I went back 30-45 minutes later and put the poker under it to get more air.
That's when I got the heavy burning and all the black smoke

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 11:54 am

larryfoster wrote:
Unless and until you make provision for separate over fire air it probably is best to leave that rear gap.
For provision, should it be the slider on the door or just leave the gap in the back?

Up until now, I never got a volcano effect.
It would just sit there until I went back 30-45 minutes later and put the poker under it to get more air.
That's when I got the heavy burning and all the black smoke
When you get the heavy burning and smoke is when you need the secondary air. It probably is happening the way you describe because the melting together is blocking air. How to best supply it for that particular coal will take some experimenting. The air coming up from below is hotter and probably better. When the balance of heat and and air is right the smoke will burn, but there is so much that it overwhelms things, so you get smoke and soot or that volcano.

Power companies pulverize the coal and spray it in along with forced air to get a relatively clean burn.

 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 12:16 pm

Thank you for the explanation, franco.

Since today is experimentation and observation, I did not have to poke under the fire after the last load.

Wondering and speculation.
One load time may not be enough to make a judgment
The fire is a lot hotter when adding now.

With the previous cooler fires, was it warm enough to just melt the coal before it was hot enough to just burn it?

For the first time in almost 2 years, I am cautiously optimistic about this furnace.
Saturday and Sunday will tell the tale as it's the coldest days of the winter with night temps below -0-

 
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CoalisCoolxWarm
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Post by CoalisCoolxWarm » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 12:36 pm

franco b wrote:...It probably is happening the way you describe because the melting together is blocking air. How to best supply it for that particular coal will take some experimenting. The air coming up from below is hotter and probably better....
^^ This ^^

You asked what different coal could do for you. When I switched, the new stuff didn't coke together, allowing more air to go through it and significantly reducing the amount of time I spent doing things like poking, shaking, adjusting air, etc.

You will have to have the air right, for sure, but hopefully the new stuff won't fight you so hard and you'll be able to load, make a few adjustments, and let her run on her own for an extended period AND get good heat ;)

Being a slave to your stove is no fun. We did it for a few years. It was better in the end, but our hot air ductwork was just temporary until we could get the baseboard reinstalled and the coal boiler running, so it was undersized and not nearly enough.

We all want better for you, and you seem to be on the right track. These guys are pretty sharp on the furnace end, which is sort of like adding a tuner and better turbo wheel for your diesel- stock is fine, but significant increases can sometimes be had if you're willing to do a little modification and playing with the settings 8-)


 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 1:20 pm

We all want better for you,
I know that and truly appreciate it.
We've gone down some rabbit holes and sometimes progress was measured in millimeters.
Some frustration on both sides.

Just a note or update.
Came back from the furnace about 10 minutes ago.
It was at 375 and needed coal.
I shook a pan full of ashes and ran the poke along the grates but, for once, it didn't really need it.
Threw 3 small shovels of coal and replaced the ash door to that real small gap.
Literally, within just a couple minutes you could watch the thermometer on the front rise right up.
It never did that.
Ever

And no coking and poking masses with this load or the last one.

To me, it's a strong indication that my coal is ok.
This is a real relief.

One is because it's more convenient to continue where I'm at.

And two, I can say "neener, neener, neener"
:P
I'm teasing.

In reality, I was starting to wonder if my coal was bad.
I know that those opinions were given with sincerity and appreciate the spirit it was offered

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 2:03 pm

Good deal. Maybe the coal is okay then and just different tending practice is needed along with more primary air.

If it helps stir some creative juices, here's a couple photos of the added primary air control. I keep a ruler next to it to measure distance to the floor of the pointer for reference to adjust heat output. I also tried to show the spring mechanism that maintains friction against the door to hold it steady.

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larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 2:34 pm

That helps, Lightning.
Thanks.

This designing stuff isn't my strong point

 
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Post by larryfoster » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 2:38 pm

What are you using as a spacer between the flap and the door?

 
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Lightning
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 2:49 pm

larryfoster wrote:What are you using as a spacer between the flap and the door?
There is no spacer, the flap is held against the door by the spring. The bolt runs thru both the flapper and door.

 
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SWPaDon
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Post by SWPaDon » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 2:54 pm

Lightning wrote:
larryfoster wrote:What are you using as a spacer between the flap and the door?
There is no spacer, the flap is held against the door by the spring. The bolt runs thru both the flapper and door.
And the other bolt hole is countersunk on the backside so the bolt head isn't sticking up, correct?

 
larryfoster
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Post by larryfoster » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 2:57 pm

Looked like there was gray or white stuff in the one picture between the door and the flap

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Thu. Feb. 11, 2016 3:24 pm

Making progress.

Once you get things working better you could consider adding a bi-metal thermostat for air control. One of the nice things about these controls is that as the fire ashes up it gradually opens to maintain heat. That means when you shake down and add coal the air control is already open to add extra air and burn volatiles. As the heat comes up it then gradually closes to the heat setting it is set at. It could be installed on the side or any place below the grate. It automatically adds that extra air at load time and could work in conjunction with the manual setting if that was needed. It eliminates that extra step of closing down air for a long burn.


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