Suggestions for unique property heating?

Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: kevindacus On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:02 pm

Hi,
I have two houses in Frackville, PA that are on the same lot. One is over the top of a three car garage and the other is on the front of the property. Heating fuel is killing me even to keep the house we are currently renovating at the lowest setting. I was wondering if there was a way to "pipe" the hotwater underground to whichever structure didn't have the stoker in it. The houses are only 100 ft from each other. Coal delivery would be difficult at one of the locations so a single unit would be best but an outdoor unit is another possibility. I have read some of the other post talking about this but I have not seen any model suggestions. Both houses are small to medium sized for the area 2-3 bedroom. Insulation on the outside of the front house is done and will try to have new siding and insulation on this one by end of summer. Moved here from OK so this is a greek to me and I don't know a lot of people around here so any information is greatly suggested.

Kevin
kevindacus
 
Stove/Furnace Make: pending
Stove/Furnace Model: pending

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: coal berner On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:24 pm

Hi Keven What you Need to do is first figure out you SQ Ft that you want to heat That will help on what size stoker/boiler you will need and yes you can run Pex from one house to the next or bulid a outside buliding to Heat both unit Here are a
few companies That will do the Job also to save Money you can but used Refurbs stoker / boiler for about 25% of what a
New one will Be Take some time and read the links below :)

http://www.efmheating.com/d520.html


http://www.keystoker.com/coaloilboilers.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


http://www.axeman-anderson.com/anthratube.html

http://www.alternateheatingsystems.com/coalboilers.htm
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: liltractornut72 On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:42 pm

Make sure you use the insulated pex pipe.
liltractornut72
 

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: coal berner On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:52 pm

liltractornut72 wrote:Make sure you use the insulated pex pipe.
Thanks Tim Forgot to Put that in :lol:
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:14 pm

Here is a link to an ebay auction for an insulated pex pipe package..


http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Insulated-Outdoor-Wood-Furnace-Boiler-PEX-Pipe_W0QQitemZ170207358393QQihZ007QQcategoryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Here is a different insulated pex system that is available locally to me in Michigan..
pipeinsulation.jpg
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I think it would be very important to find out the type of soil, rocks, etc that you might encounter when digging a trench between the two houses.. If there is bedrock or lots of boulders,, the trenching to burry the insulated pipes will be quite expensive.

Hope this helps.. Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: coal berner On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:31 pm

LsFarm wrote:Here is a link to an ebay auction for an insulated pex pipe package..


http://cgi.ebay.com/100-Insulated-Outdoor-Wood-Furnace-Boiler-PEX-Pipe_W0QQitemZ170207358393QQihZ007QQcategoryZ20598QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Here is a different insulated pex system that is available locally to me in Michigan..
pipeinsulation.jpg


I think it would be very important to find out the type of soil, rocks, etc that you might encounter when digging a trench between the two houses.. If there is bedrock or lots of boulders,, the trenching to burry the insulated pipes will be quite expensive.

Hope this helps.. Greg L

.
I can Tell you it will be shale rock and some coal Greg frackville is where Yanche stayed for the fist tour Do you Remember all of those Rocks in the hotel lot it is hard anywhere around here to dig ;)
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:36 pm

That's what I was thinking... lots of pick and shovel... and ADvill or motrin the next morning !!

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:48 pm

Yes, J.C. I remember all the rocks in Frackville. I wouldn't want to dig very deep there. Kevin, you can pipe boiler water easily 100 feet. It will need to be insulated, but it doesn't have to be buried in the ground below the frost line. You could get the conduit in the ground the best you can and then just put dirt on top of it and create a landscaped berm. There will be no less expensive way to heat your homes than coal, especially when you are in the heart of Anthracite coal country.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: gambler On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:49 pm

Something like this should do the trick.

HT220 HEAVY DUTY TRENCHER

The king of the Ditch Witch mountain is the HT220, a rock-digging workhorse capable of trenching up to eight feet (2.4 m) deep and up to 24 inches (610 mm) wide in the most extreme jobsite conditions.
Attachments
HT220_1.jpg
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gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:50 pm

A cheaper way of installing the pex pipe, red with the o-2 barrier by the way, is to buy the 4" black drainage pipe that comes in 100' rolls. Get your pex from a good plumbing supply house. The price can vary alot. Insulate the pex with high density foam that air conditioning mechanics use for rooftop condensate units. The brand is Armorflex. Get it as thick as you can afford. Like insulating a house, can'tget enough. Lay the pex out, slide the armorflex onto the pex. Tape up the joints with the right tape. Pull the insulated pex into the 4" drainage pipe using a snake. Use 2 - 4" drainage pipes as the cost for 100' is around $25 Last time I checked.That way will cost around 1/2 of what the outdoor wood boiler guys sell their premade stuff for. This way is superior because you can insulate the heck out of your pipes. The outdoor building is a good idea. Hard to get a good height for your chimney to draft properly. Do run conduits in the ground with the pex. 1 3/4" is fine. 2 would be better, but not necessary.You will need a crimp tool for the pex. I have one for 1" that you are welcome to borrow.

The boilers are all great units with several having Advantages. I like the EFM's because they have an auger system that is low to the ground, which translate to bins and not lifting the coal very high. The AHS has optimal efficiency, the keystoker very few moving parts. Any one of these units would work great! If you have a chimney on the outside of one of the buildings, one option might be to build a small addition right around the chimney if possible. 8x8 is the minimum, but bigger is better.

The hookups,,,,well that's another story told by a more qualified member. Good luck!! Sounds like you are pretty industrious and will put together a sweet system. Be sure to take pics and post them on the forum. Don't hesitate to use this wealth of accumulated knowledge on this forum. It is without a doubt the best one online. :) Scott

`
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: coal berner On: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:41 am

As for a Chimney on a outside buliding All you need is Either A Double wall insulated S.S. 316L around 20ft or 24ft or a
Masonry one The taller the better and insulated is a must to keep the pipe warm so you can keep a good draft I am close
to you if I can Help you Let Me know good luck :)
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: Sting On: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:12 am

Do not scrimp on the distribution lines underground from load to appliance. This is one place that will kill you with unrecoverable loss of energy if you do not insulate it correctly and it warms the soil enough as if you installed to melt snow.

Do not use too small diameter of distribution lines - I recommend staying the same size as the appliance supply port - if thats 1-1/2 - use that size - Trouble design flow rates in one inch pex is only 8 GPM - thats "Trouble Free" not possible

Trouble free GMP flow in 1-1/4 is 16 and it takes 16 gpm to move 160,000 btu of energy.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Suggestions for unique property heating?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:16 am

The most commonly available and therfore afordable pex is 1".. you can increase the flow rate with a more capable circulator,, this is what 99.9% of the burried pipe systems use..

Finding larger PEX is difficult,, and it is VERY expensive.. I used 1" pex-al-pex for all my instalations.

One thing on the burried pipe.. the most important thing is to keep the outer 'drain-pipe' seamless.. Water is death on insulation. With my double, pipes within a tube, insulated, within an outer tube,, both of the black plastic corrugated tubes are seamless from building to building.. no way [I hope] for water to get inside and carry away heat to the ground.

I like the two separate pipe system described above,, I haven't looked at the cost,, I may use this to install my third circuit from the boiler building to my separate apartment..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Visit Lehigh Anthracite