Reading Plastic Bagged Coal Quality Warning

OK, fair disclosure: I'm just an on-again/off-again memeber who has been only buring coal for about 10 years. I've used bulk delivery (massive pile in driveway), self-bagged, dealer-bagged, and, this year, for the first time, Reading plastic bagged coal. Had this been my first coal burning experience, I would have sworn off coal as as fast as Joe Biden.

Nastiest, filthiest, messiest, drippingest coal regret ever. Honestly, this stuff has been horrible.

In fairness to my dealer, this was his first experience with the product too. Now he has 20 tons on discount just to get rid of it.

So what makes this the worst coal I've ever burned?

1. The sealed plastic bags contain over a cup of free water. The black lagoon stains drip everywhere. My basement floor looks like complete crap.
2. The secret-ingrediant diarrhea dripping everywhere also leaves white, brown, and rust colored stains on the floor.
3. You gotta either dump the bags in buckets with holes in them to drain or you need to hang the bags over basins and puncture the bottoms. And, even then, the coal inside will still be wet (but not dripping).
4. The bag handles either aren't well perforated or they just tear our. Handles are a good idea, but the execution of this bag is awful.
5. I've seen more rust/corrosion in my hopper and burn chamber in this year than probably all the previous combined years I've had my Keystoker.

The pre-bagged product sounded like a great idea, but it has been a profound disapointment. I can't believe a reputable company would peddle a product like this. And I won't ever buy this again. I probably go back to propane or wood first.

So, like I said, I'm just a small town clown and probably nobody should take my word for it. But do take may advice to check it out before buying. I've gotten such good info here on the forum that I just had to share my experience.

Thanks,
Kenbod

More then one complaint has been registered with extremely wet bagged coal by multiple vendors. Aside of possible added water in the cleaning process prior to bagging, there is one other way for excess water to be in the bags.

As a young boy scout learning survival techniques via the boy scout hand book there was a method to extract good drinking water using a stone suspended above the ground by a plastic sheet. I don't remember the quantity rendered but the method did supply safe consumable water. If you think about this, the reverse would occur in the bagged coal especially if the bags are left exposed to heat and cold of the day. This, I believe would account for the excess water many are finding in their bags. Just some water for thought!
Snuffy

All right coal suppliers who may be lurking .... Do not send me wet coal ... I will not accept your wet coal. I expect my fuel to be clean dry and serviceable.

davidmcbeth3 wrote:All right coal suppliers who may be lurking .... Do not send me wet coal ... I will not accept your wet coal. I expect my fuel to be clean dry and serviceable.

I've had customers request dry coal for delivery..... once.

Richard S. wrote:

davidmcbeth3 wrote:All right coal suppliers who may be lurking .... Do not send me wet coal ... I will not accept your wet coal. I expect my fuel to be clean dry and serviceable.

I've had customers request dry coal for delivery..... once.

I learned the hard way !!!!!

Reading bagged coal was terrible the last time I bought it, (2013-2014), they like chopping up their old conveyor belts and selling that with their coal as well.

I bought a ton of the reading bags of crap last year. This is only my second year of coal burning, I have 2 bags left , I've been trying to use up. Mine doesn't have water, but a bag of nut has very few pieces of nut, mostly fines and very small pieces. I used it and Bkashak bags last year and was ready to give up on coal until I discovered Kimmels at TSC. I bought a triaxle load of Lehigh nut this year , cause the price was right. It has been the best by far of any brand I've used. I have enough coal now for the next ten years and I'm happy it is Lehigh. I think I would have been very disappointed had it been Reading. Also the price of reading was higher than the other brands I mentioned .

Richard S. wrote:

davidmcbeth3 wrote:All right coal suppliers who may be lurking .... Do not send me wet coal ... I will not accept your wet coal. I expect my fuel to be clean dry and serviceable.

I've had customers request dry coal for delivery..... once.

With all fuel it is expected to be clean, dry, and serviceable. When you buy gas do you say "no water please"?

Good Lord DM--now we're comparing gas to coal. Kinda silly but check the refining process for both& draw your own conclusions instead of posting unrealistic comparisons. Bottom line for this post is the Reading bagged sux & is sopping wet plus poor quality!

freetown fred wrote:Good Lord DM--now we're comparing gas to coal. Kinda silly but check the refining process for both& draw your own conclusions instead of posting unrealistic comparisons. Bottom line for this post is the Reading bagged sux & is sopping wet plus poor quality!

Fred's back ! Welcome back Fred. I used gas as an example .... any fuel would do. Addressing the wet issue and not the particle size distribution which can be issues for folks depending on stove.

My stove has no issues with the fines, burns them fine (LOL) but I can see others with different machines not liking it. The issue with particle size distribution is that while there is a general consensus as to the size of pea, nut, stove sized coal the particle size distribution is not well defined if at all, at least as far as I know.

Fred, if you have some authority to cite regarding the particle size distribution of any coal size please post. I would find it interesting to examine as others may as well. I'm always looking at specifications for materials and products I purchase to insure I am getting what I am paying for.

davidmcbeth3 wrote:
With all fuel it is expected to be clean, dry, and serviceable. When you buy gas do you say "no water please"?

You can't have your cake and eat it too, it's just the nature of the beast. When that coal comes out of the breaker it should be perfectly clean. Then it falls off the end of chute onto the pile making "dirt". Then the loader guy comes over and scoops it making mome "dirt". If he gets into the middle of the pile there is going to be a lot of dirt as the larger and rounder pieces roll off to the sides. Then he goes and dumps it on the pile making more "dirt". Then it gets dumped into the delivery truck making more "dirt". Then it goes down the chute into your bin making even more "dirt" .

If you are a smart person you buy the loader guy a $50 bottle of booze every Christmas so when you tell him you'll be in for nut he'll leave the pile alone until you get back. Then he can scrape it off the sides when you come in so you get the cleanest and and most desirable coal.

When I was delivering they had hoppers for loading delivery trucks, these could only be operated in warmer weather. The coal went across a screen with water jets, the fines and smaller pieces were cleaned out of it. This was only done with nut and pea and occasionally buck.

What I can tell you is this David, I'll take the soaking wet coal coming out of the hopper over the dryer stuff in the pile anyday.

davidmcbeth3 wrote:The issue with particle size distribution is that while there is a general consensus as to the size of pea, nut, stove sized coal the particle size distribution is not well defined if at all, at least as far as I know.

The size of the coal is going to vary slightly because as the screen wears it increases, it should be within the given sizing parameters.

Richard S. wrote:

davidmcbeth3 wrote:The issue with particle size distribution is that while there is a general consensus as to the size of pea, nut, stove sized coal the particle size distribution is not well defined if at all, at least as far as I know.

The size of the coal is going to vary slightly because as the screen wears it increases, it should be within the given sizing parameters.

I would expect to see a curve or distribution chart or table similar to this ^^^ for an actual size specification-- merely stating that there are sizing parameters is not sufficient for a specification of particle size distribution. There would always be some smaller particles resulting from the processing of the coal...its the nature of the beast.

The ? is: how much is too much [for fines].

This would likely vary depending on the company. But do they even make such a specification? If not, then there is none and size(s) is not a specification at all.

I would suggest that no company actually produces particle size specifications but just vague guidelines...so you would not have a valid legal claim against the company for handing you a bag of whatever.

People can have valid complaints about a product, even when the product meets the manufacturer's specifications.

Kenbod wrote:OK, fair disclosure: I'm just an on-again/off-again memeber who has been only buring coal for about 10 years. I've used bulk delivery (massive pile in driveway), self-bagged, dealer-bagged, and, this year, for the first time, Reading plastic bagged coal. Had this been my first coal burning experience, I would have sworn off coal as as fast as Joe Biden.

Nastiest, filthiest, messiest, drippingest coal regret ever. Honestly, this stuff has been horrible.

In fairness to my dealer, this was his first experience with the product too. Now he has 20 tons on discount just to get rid of it.

So what makes this the worst coal I've ever burned?

1. The sealed plastic bags contain over a cup of free water. The black lagoon stains drip everywhere. My basement floor looks like complete crap.
2. The secret-ingrediant diarrhea dripping everywhere also leaves white, brown, and rust colored stains on the floor.
3. You gotta either dump the bags in buckets with holes in them to drain or you need to hang the bags over basins and puncture the bottoms. And, even then, the coal inside will still be wet (but not dripping).
4. The bag handles either aren't well perforated or they just tear our. Handles are a good idea, but the execution of this bag is awful.
5. I've seen more rust/corrosion in my hopper and burn chamber in this year than probably all the previous combined years I've had my Keystoker.

The pre-bagged product sounded like a great idea, but it has been a profound disapointment. I can't believe a reputable company would peddle a product like this. And I won't ever buy this again. I probably go back to propane or wood first.

So, like I said, I'm just a small town clown and probably nobody should take my word for it. But do take may advice to check it out before buying. I've gotten such good info here on the forum that I just had to share my experience.

Thanks,
Kenbod

About the bagged reading coal issues; they have switched to a form, fill and seal bagging frame design used for water softener salt which is fine for dried salt material that is packaged in bags for retail sale.

The problem is the product being anthracite coal and its condition(wet) when it is bagged.

If it is reclaimed anthracite coal it will have debris like broken railroad tie pieces, nails, tie spikes, tree roots from trees that have grown in the gob piles of coal and rock that were dumped aside and left to waste and a certain amount of naturally occurring chemically changed rust due to the exposure to the air over time.

As coal is sedimentary rock it will break in various layers from the freeze/thaw cycles and water will seep everywhere but not be absorbed by the coal itself.

The formed filled and sealed bags are an issue when the wet material is blown into them from weight chamber calibrated to weight the material prior to its being blown into the specific bag size after the two sides of the bag are unrolled and stretched to create the bag and the base of the bag and the sides of the bag are electo-welded shut to create an open mouth plastic bag. The top and base of the bag has either the precut handle holes in the two sheets of plastic that the bag is constructed from or the handle holes are cut into the bag when the bag is sealed on the bottom first then the top seam of the bag is sealed and it is rolled into a cutter that creates the upper and or lower handle of the bag before it is released from the bagging line to be conveyed to a palletiser.

The mess is sealed inside the bag and the bag grippers put puncture holes in the bag to hold it and or each bag is shaken to flatten it out before it is conveyed to the palletizing station where five bags are conveyed to the load forming frame and they are slid into place with a pnuematic arm in the first operation and then pushed into place with the opposing pneumatic arm to form the bag layer and then the floor is retracted to allow the bags to drop on the pallet to create the first layer. this continues making opposing layers of bags to create a level pallet load that will not fall apart when the pallet is moved from the palletiser to the shrink wrapping station where it is wrapped and then discharged to the offloading station. The palletising station can be set up with pallet vibrators to make the loads settle more and then they can be banded to and then shrink wrapped and then have pallet bags pulled down over them by the palletising machine or laborers assigned to the task of placing pallet bags over the loads

Typically a pallet of bags is packed and loaded and then a pallet bag is placed on a finished pallet and then the load is shrink wrapped to make sure it stays in place during handling and transferring it to its final destination.

If the packaging plant does not have a storage barn for the coal it will remain out of doors until it is loaded into a bagging hopper and the coal is wet and will not dry out.

I have also described how deep mined coals are produced, sized, transported, crushed in a secondary crushing and sizing system then either stockpiled or loaded into rail cars or conveyed into a bituminous pulverised coal power plants storage bunkers by a mine mouth power plant system operation.

I have discussed how anthracite coal it is handled, managed or packed by an coal packing plant owned by the mine operator or a contract packager.

The anthracite coal I have purchased which is Kimmels rice coal is excellent in quality and uniform in size as was the Kimmels nut coal I purchased before the new boiler was installed.

The open mouth woven polyester sewn bags hold the material well and the moisture in them drips out pretty well by simply standing the bags up and resting them on the threshold of the boiler room allowing them to drip out. this helps in drying it as the water is dripping away from the coal bag.

I have added quite a bit of information about coal bagging procedures using form, fill and seal bagging equipment and how its managed, packed, palletized and how the pallet is shrink wrapped and then how the pallet is covered with pallet bag.

The bagged coal product may sit outside for months and even with shrink wrap and a pallet bag covering it it will attract moisture because of the black bags but the coal will not absorb it.

The bag shakers with grippers will perforate the bags and the black print on the reading bags will attract heat and as result moisture simply from temperature change.

Bagged coal stored inside will hold moisture and will continue to do so unless it is removed from the bags and the moisture will not be reduced until it is loaded into the boiler or a bin where it can dry out a bit more.

Dehumidifiers work wonders to dry out rooms and coal- I have to run a dehumidifier where my boiler is because of the slab on grade construction that has no drainage and I simply stack 25-40 bags at a time flat to simply be heated by the boilers heat and the dehumidifier which I need to run anyway to keep the area much less damp due to the poor drainage.

You know when you have drainage issues when you see four inches of water in the room where the five foot deep snow fall has started to melt suddenly from the heat of the sun and the water from the snow melt drips under the and through the wall and on to the slab until it reaches the equal point of water pressure against the snow that is outside the wall of the room where it is still melting away and not going anywhere.

If the screening and washing of the product is not done or done well you will have issues with the coal exactly as you have described.

The rusty water you mention is also a common issue with coal of all types- it dries out eventually and you can sweep it up or not.

I guess my feeling it if you can store this coal somewhere and put a tarp over it and run a dehumidifier under the tarp you will be way ahead of things as the dehumidifier will need to be drained several times per day or if you have a garden hose drain connection for the dehumidifier you will be well ahead of the game.

I dump one bag in the hopper of my Keystoker KAA-4-1 every 18 hours or so and set the bag aside to dry out and then after a week or so I shake the remaining coal fines from the bags into the hopper, lay the bags down on the floor and tie them together in groups of 20 bags using the bagging thread from the bags and set them aside to be used later for whatever I need them for.

You could buy the remaining coal he has and leave it on the pallets and then tarp it well and run the dehumidifier and have coal that is very dry and ready to use in your coal burner.

Its all up to you I guess, but its also a question of opportunity cost and what you are willing to part with to get what you want or need. Buying this coal would be money in the bank as all that is needed is a good water proof tarp and a dehumidifier with a garden hose connection to remove the water from the dehumidifier.

Hello Richard and David,

A screens sieve size being its width and length and screen fabric thickness is created by a governing body like the ASTM or CEMA being the Conveying equipment manufacturers association.

==============================================================================
The U.S. Standard Test Sieve Series is

The mac daddy of screening which is also the bible is the Tyler Screen Series which is GOD in the material screening business.

The charts go like this:

The Tyler inch/Mesh #

Sieve designation
top end

5 inches

Nominal Inches

5.0

Sieve Opening Millimeters

125MM

The sieve size progresses downwards to one inch/325 mesh size(just to make things simpler) and even smaller.

This is also regulated by the Mineral Dressing Sizing Scale

with +4 inch material down to 400 Mesh with the Screening Method

SO after throwing this mud I will excuse myself.