Did God Create Man Or Did Man Create God?

Devil5052 wrote:No-one is claiming they are lying & I even had an experience that is open to different interpretations. You may choose to assign a religeous, other-worldy meaning to it, ....or......another may believe it is nothing more than the random firing of neurons within the brain that, like a dream, has no significance or "religeous" meaning at all. My interpretaion>.....I tend to be a "Show me I'm from Missouri " kinda guy, & feel it more likely that it was a chemical event within my brain.
Am I 100% positive of either opinion? NO

Show You? why? You can't believe in something unless you have physical proof? it seems that you have experienced more proof than most already!

Devil5052 wrote:Figured we need a nice light little subject that we could all agree on, so here it is.

Gotta hand it to ya Dick, you are one hell of a funny fella!

The existence or absence of GOD in this world has nothing to do with Religion, true spirituality and our awareness of the collective connection to a supreme being is a personal and profound truth. Nothing the EGO has to add will make it any more or less true, in fact the EGO will convince us to kill people (and involve ourselves in any number of horrible acts) because a GOD defined by Religion says it is the right thing to do. When all is said and done, our hearts provide the measure of what follows our true nature as Spiritual Beings having a human experience.

Well said Matt... It's what is in your heart..and how how you live your life... not if you go to church, or believe in a particular set of structured beliefs... or tithe 10% or any of that..

Greg L

Speaking of the death thing and proof of the afterlife. I have three reasons to belive there is SOMETHING after death.
last year I lost a life long friend from Pancreatic cancer. He was only 36 yrs. old. He was terrified to die. especially when he got really really sick. His sister told me he was crying and saying he didn't want to die just before he actually died. But, seconds before he closed his eyes for good, his tears stopped and he got the most most peaceful smile on his face. He then took a deep calming breath and left us for good.
The Exact same thing happend to another friend that died three years prior !

And finally, when my grandmother passed when I was 17 yrs. old. of Parkisons disease she was shaking violently just before passing on. All of the sudden she stopped shaking and was totally calm and looked at my father and told him she loved him and then she also smiled and passed on.

Now, I don't know about you but if i am about to die, the last thing i am going to do is smile about it. UNLESS there actually is something to smile about.!

LsFarm wrote:Well said Matt... It's what is in your heart..and how how you live your life... not if you go to church, or believe in a particular set of structured beliefs... or tithe 10% or any of that..

Greg L

This is true, no doubt. But I think They are talking more about not believing at all. Your description is still believing. juat a different way of doing so.

" The God i believe in isn't short of cash mister"

Bono

ktm rider wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:No-one is claiming they are lying & I even had an experience that is open to different interpretations. You may choose to assign a religeous, other-worldy meaning to it, ....or......another may believe it is nothing more than the random firing of neurons within the brain that, like a dream, has no significance or "religeous" meaning at all. My interpretaion>.....I tend to be a "Show me I'm from Missouri " kinda guy, & feel it more likely that it was a chemical event within my brain.
Am I 100% positive of either opinion? NO

Show You? why? You can't believe in something unless you have physical proof? it seems that you have experienced more proof than most already!

I tbhink this is a great discussion here! No-one is angry or emtional & we are discussing, in an adult way. probably the deepest most cotrovercial subject in the history of mankind! (ok...enought dramatics!)

What I experienced, & what thousands of other honest people experience, cannot be considered proof
to verify any belief/interpretation. There are just too many variable & unknowns.

Let's take my experience:

Was it the hand of God, sparing my life so that I could live to see my 3 Grandchildren? .......Perhaps
Was it the random firing of neurons in the brain that give off certain electrical signals when they are hurt or about to shut down?......perhaps



Does one make an informed decision based upon the best evidence?
Or
Does one decide simply on unreasoned faith?


I lean towards best evidence but everyone else must make their own choice. There is no right or wrong answer here.
(What bothers me is many people of faith will look down their noses at & scold non-believers for their views. As if they (beleivers) have more of a right to their opinions than non-beleivers, & that is just flat wrong)

The death & resurrection of Jesus Christ gives us an insight into what happens. It is the foundation of Christianity.

Devil5052 wrote:.
There is no right or wrong answer here.

I disagree. there most certainly is a right and wrong. if you don't believe and there is in fact a creator, then you are wrong. Let me ask you this then. if you need physical proof of things then does that mean that you do not believe there are other life form OTHER than the life here on earth? Meaning another planet.

stockingfull wrote:

billw wrote:Lewis Black the comedian??

You're making me nervous, I'm not used to having people agree with me. That's why I stay out of political discussions. I'm usually arguing with both Republicans and Democrats.

Yes, Lewis Black, the "angry" comic on Jon Stewart's show, who now has his own show called "Root of all Evil" on HBO, where he "presides" over fictitious "cases" between pet pieves, to determine which is the root of all evil. Last week's was between Paris Hilton and Dick Cheney. The, um, "winner" was our Dick in Chief.

Well there you have it. I'm to cheap to pay for HBO. I've seen his political schtick on the comedy channel. He's a funny guy. Scary that two people see organized religion in the same way. Every time I talk about this around the house my mother, wife, and mother-in-law say a novena for me. I guess 12 years of Catholic school ruined me.

ktm rider wrote:Speaking of the death thing and proof of the afterlife. I have three reasons to belive there is SOMETHING after death.
last year I lost a life long friend from Pancreatic cancer. He was only 36 yrs. old. He was terrified to die. especially when he got really really sick. His sister told me he was crying and saying he didn't want to die just before he actually died. But, seconds before he closed his eyes for good, his tears stopped and he got the most most peaceful smile on his face. He then took a deep calming breath and left us for good.
The Exact same thing happend to another friend that died three years prior !

And finally, when my grandmother passed when I was 17 yrs. old. of Parkisons disease she was shaking violently just before passing on. All of the sudden she stopped shaking and was totally calm and looked at my father and told him she loved him and then she also smiled and passed on.

Now, I don't know about you but if i am about to die, the last thing i am going to do is smile about it. UNLESS there actually is something to smile about.!

I unfortunately had a similar experience with my sister, who after fighting cancer of the neck for almost 10 years, died of it about 4 years ago at the age of 59. She went through many stages of "End Of Life" emotional changes that include all the emotions a human is capable of: Fear,Anger, Sadness, & even humor! I went through all the stages with her &, other than my Father dying was I was 11, was definetly the worst experience of my life. (my eyes are welling up as I write this)
But......to assign religeous significane to any of these stages is pure conjecture. I feel, & many psychiatrists as well feel that the peace you describe (which my sister experienced as well) is simply the brain's defense mechanism to make the unbearable....bearable.
I think we would all like to believe your interpretation, but some of us just cvan't or don't know.

Devil5052 wrote:Let's take my experience:

Was it the hand of God, sparing my life so that I could live to see my 3 Grandchildren? .......Perhaps
Was it the random firing of neurons in the brain that give off certain electrical signals when they are hurt or about to shut down?......

It was both.

If the essence that gives us breath is not part of something which cannot die (which by the way has nothing to do whether your brain has allowed the words of men to tell you to believe a certain way about Christ to have eternal life), then explain what it is..... if our soul is not the driving source that makes our tissue alive, then what does?

Devil5052 wrote:I think we would all like to believe your interpretation, but some of us just cvan't or don't know.

That is EXACTLY why it is called FAITH ( and not fact) You have to have FAITH that it is fact.

"I am the Resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die."

ktm rider wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:.
There is no right or wrong answer here.

I disagree. there most certainly is a right and wrong. if you don't believe and there is in fact a creator, then you are wrong. Please do not scold me for not having your faith which you cannot establish scientificaly. I said before that I do not know the answer to your question, but I am sure no-one else knows the answer either. You can believe, but not know.

Let me ask you this then. if you need physical proof of things then does that mean that you do not believe there are other life form OTHER than the life here on earth? Meaning another planet.

I do believe that other forms of life exist in the universe which again backs up my opinion that, if there is a God, he/she/it has much more to do than concern himself with the daily events on our small planet.
Now let me ask you a question, & let's try to stay unemotional, which I know can be hard:

If there is a benevolent God watching over us here on earth, please explain how Auschvitz, 9/11, wars, disease & all other horrors occured on his watch?

LsFarm wrote:Well said Matt... It's what is in your heart..and how how you live your life... not if you go to church, or believe in a particular set of structured beliefs... or tithe 10% or any of that..

Greg L

Now there might be some proof for you non-believers: Greg and I agree on something!

Either that or just chaos theory....