Bulk coal delivery protocol?

Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: blau barrick On: Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:35 pm

I guess my real question is...How can the net weight on the slip and what the scale actually reads not match? Could the weighmaster not be held acountable for the discrepancy? Well, thats enough about that subject!
blau barrick
 
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:20 pm

I should know this so don't quote me on it but toy get a percentage of discrepancy. e.g if the weight on the ticket is 1000 and you go another scale it has to be within a percentage. Those scales are not 100% accurate anyway. You can pull on and it be 15000, pull off and pull back on and you'll have slightly different weight.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: mcrchap On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:32 pm

If your coal supplier picks up your coal right from the breaker you can ask for that slip which will show the weight of his truck empty and the weight when it was full. If he loads it at the coal yard you can ask (you might pay more) for him to weigh his truck empty and then weigh the load. The scales will produce a weight slip. He probably won't want to do that.
If your coal is wet you are paying for water weight. Some coal breakers give a little off for water weight. You could ask him to let the truck sit and drain for a while before weighing it. You could have the cubic feet of space that much coal would occupy.
Try another dealer. You might find a difference or you might not.

I pay $150 per ton at the breaker and I haul it myself in a pickup. I usually get 3/4 ton at at time.
mcrchap
 
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:45 pm

mcrchap wrote:If your coal supplier picks up your coal right from the breaker you can ask for that slip which will show the weight of his truck empty and the weight when it was full. If he loads it at the coal yard you can ask (you might pay more) for him to weigh his truck empty and then weigh the load. The scales will produce a weight slip. He probably won't want to do that.


You cannot legally sell coal in PA without a certified scale. Not sure if they are required to give you slip if you pick it up yourself but if it leaves the yard on delivery truck you have to have a slip. I believe I posted some information at the start of this thread with the specifics of what should be on the slip.

You could ask him to let the truck sit and drain for a while before weighing it.


If you're getting the coal in the summer time and it's coming out of a hopper with a screen and water jets you have to do that, you'll have a thousand pounds of water in the truck otherwise.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:32 pm

Even after a 400 mile haul from PA to Cape Cod there is still some water on the truck...
The driver even lets the water drain before he hits the scale in PA...
The Iron House has the TT weighed before and he drops the coal on The Cape also...
There is an allowance for water weight at the breaker...
So rounding to an even number is not the only fudging of the weight done...
These allowances have been done for years...
My guess is they are slightly over the weight you pay for...
To be under when selling a scaled product is illegal...
To be over is not...
The time and errors saved while doing rounded tickets offsets the gifted coal expense...
CapeCoaler
 
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: unaslob On: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:56 pm

i pick up my coal now in a 3/4 ton truck every time I need coal directly from the breaker.. I have to get on the scale before and after... and I get a computer printed out weigh slip with my empty weight, full weight, and tare weight. it is very official looking. it is not an exact weight though... i beleive it is in 100 lb increments.
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: subwaycoal On: Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:54 am

If you doubt what you have recieved, or simply do not trust your weighmaster, merchant, or weight ticket--this method of securing fuel is simply not for you. I have sold coal all my life, have one of the very last coalyards--the era has ended--I could look at a load of coal, and guestimate the accuracy of my scales--seldom missing by more that 30# per ton. My scales never lied. The industry standard WAS tipping the scale at a 2000# ton (yes you might get 2010#), truck scales were generally graduated at 20# increments, antique wagon scales (of which I still have one in service), had 10 # increments on the net beam. As far as water--the industry standard was to 'wet' the coal, after scaling, to provide not only dust control, but also lubrication to assist your delivery. Funny thing, we have over 90 years retailing coal, and never lost a customer because they felt cheated. I did have a customer who told me he weighed his coal as he used it, on a bathroom scale, and missed his 2000# mark by 18#--he was satisfied because he realized there was a margin of error. Our community had 23 coalyards at one time, over 50 in the county. I am the last one in this part of the state. Face it--this is an era--very colorful--but gone by. Remember the cliche--figures don't lie but liars figure. This probably also applies to weightmasters. You will also 'get what you pay for'. I was often amazed how one of the 'trucker coalmen' could sell some Pittsburgh #8 for 'Premium Kentucky' and get away with it.
subwaycoal
 

Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: blrman07 On: Thu Dec 30, 2010 9:25 am

Where you at? I have 3 yards within 30 minutes of me.
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: grizzly2 On: Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:15 am

With the closest dealer 70 miles from me I am glad he is honest. I have checked my deliveries by calculating volume in my bin. The last delivery filled the bin higher than I had calculated, so if my slide rule didn't slip, I got a full measure plus. The coal is oiled but not at all wet. He gets his coal in 20 ton truck loads and it sits in his bins until delivered. Dry as can be. I am lucky to have an honest dealer because I have no other options.
I am moving to an area that has a local dealer. He has come recommended to me by one of our forum members. Looks like I may be lucky again.
I will be about as far away from the PA breakers as you can get in NY state. So prices aren't cheap, but compared to other fuels there is no comparison.
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: crazy4coal On: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:43 pm

If your not honest and fair, Your not around long, Bad word travels fast.
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: Willis On: Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:24 pm

subwaycoal wrote:I was often amazed how one of the 'trucker coalmen' could sell some Pittsburgh #8 for 'Premium Kentucky' and get away with it.


You know that fellow too huh...haha
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: kevinp On: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:20 pm

I'm not sure where to post this question. This seems like good place.

Does anyone know where I can get my hands on a 5 ton High-Lift coal delivery truck in running/working condition for a very reasonable (cheap) price? I'm thinking of restarting my coal delivery business.

Please e-mail me at: medic759@pa.metrocast.net

Thanks.

Kevin
kevinp
 

Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: mattcoalburner On: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:53 pm

Richard S. wrote:
Charlie Z wrote:My coal company's slogan is, "We cheat the other guy and pass the savings on to you."

Should I be concerned?


:lol: Yea if you're first in line.

Coal Jockey wrote:All my coal comes in on flatdeck trucks, on skids, in bags. I can't get bulk. I have to manually carry wet and dripping bags that have been stored outside with substandard wrapping. I'll still take it dry please.


Bag coal is a different situation, at most you'd want it just a little damp. I don't know what the exactly what they do at the processing plant, if it's that wet it must be coming right out of the breaker. That or they wetting it at the plant to keep the dust down. Some moisture is to be expected, I'm surprised its thats wet when you get it.


The coal comes from the breaker and is dumped in big piles to be loaded with a loader into the hoppers, If it snows or rains the coal is getting wet before being bagged. thats one way the coal can become wet.
The coal is put into bags that have tiny holes in them, the water doesnt drain from them soo good, but if they have been sitting outside the water can get in, thats another way bagged coal gets wet.
mattcoalburner
 
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: mattcoalburner On: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:05 pm

Richard S. wrote:
Yanche wrote:You could also make stopping at commercial scales and bringing you the weight ticket part of your WRITTEN coal purchase contract.


For small loads they will just tell you to call someone else and 7 ton would constitute a small load, I wouldn't do either the contract or the scale for such deliveries. I'm not even sure I'd go through the hassle with a tri-axle or trailer. It wouldn't be worth the hassle for either me or the customer. I'd only do the contract if you're were buying like 50 ton or more and the scale if you were willing to pay for the time and that would be a large percentage if its just 7 ton. The profit margin on bulk coal for deliveries is not all that great, dealers are not paying much less that what the general public is. Money is made on quantity, two good drivers with two good trucks could deliver 50+ ton in a day locally. I did 32 tom by myself one day with a 5 ton lift and the first trip was a full 3 hours there and back. Messing around on another scale is not in the plans, that's besides the fact that of all the routes I took I can't think of one. Even if your coalman did agree to this its going to drive the price up especially if they have to go on scale. Generally if I ever got very demanding customers I'd tell them to just call someone else, usually not worth it because it just becomes giant hassle no matter what you do. If it wasn't one thing it would be the other.


Aggreed Ricard, I deliver coal. And I am honest, I had people tell me they never got so much in their bin when they ordered coal from others. If anyone understands a certified scale, they still have a margin of error, AND a scale at one location can show a totally different number then one at a different location,the main thing weights and measures checks is the accuracy of the load. I go to 3 breakers and my light weight from one to another can vary as much as 500 lb but that doesnt matter, its how much the scale is weighing after the truck is loaded. now someone asks you to weigh at another scale and it shows 500lb difference plus maybe 150lb of lost water on a larger load and they think they were ripped off 1/2 ton! If your a coal dealer dont waste your time with people who dont trust you. Any business matter has to have trust on both sides to work, I am trusting that ill get paid for the coal, and I am hoping the person I deliver to trusts that im not ripping them off. And weighing buckets on your own portable scale will NOT give you accurate numbers.
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Re: Bulk coal delivery protocol?

PostBy: mattcoalburner On: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:28 pm

Richard S. wrote:
snuffy wrote:The weight protocol brings up an interesting issue - why are each and every ticket rounded to the nearest 100th lb


To save time and bookwork for everyone where I was getting my coal they would allow you X amount over. With the delivery truck just from experience you could easily get it close to the mark you wanted but you'd try and err on the side of more. Every time I left the breaker I was over by at least 100 pounds on a 5 ton load. The only time I'd have to mess around getting reweighed was if I was light. If I was over 2 or 3 hundred it was still marked at 5 ton. As long as you're dealing with reputable and honest people I wouldn't be concerned about the rounding as its going to be in your favor.

FYI if you're picking it up yourself they are required to have the scale weight visible to you. You can check it yourself which way they are rounding.

Scales are certified in PA, but what is the allowance?


I believe its a percentage, in any event first person that will know the scale is off is the delivery guys. They know exactly what X amount of coal looks like on their truck.


The breakers I go to put EXACT weights on the slip, if your getting 2 ton and the coal is over on the truck every breaker I go to will show that i am either forced dump some off or charge the customer. I always ask the customer do you want exactly 2 ton or is it ok to be under or over a little. thats how I make my determination.
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