Are you still voting stupidly

Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:16 pm

franco b wrote:
Pacowy wrote:Not interested in fighting a crusade for you. And I don't see how anything you're proposing would do anything other than foster more of the thing you supposedly are trying to stop.

Mike


You seem to have missed the word "controlled" in Simon's post. I would add "lawful" as well.


We're already doing "controlled", esp. with respect to immigration from the ME. As covered in some detail in another thread, the data show that W figured out we needed tighter border security and Obama continued and expanded that. Save your narrative to the contrary if you don't have substance to back it up.

Simon has repeatedly advocated blowing up mosques and overall a genocidal approach to this issue. That was the main focus of my comment.

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:41 pm

Pacowy wrote:Save your narrative to the contrary if you don't have substance to back it up.


All i have is the narrative of millions of illegals pouring across the border as reported constantly by almost all sources. Immigration policy does not replace existing immigration law. Current practise is outlawry.
franco b
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:25 pm

Just because you listen to sources that repeat something doesn't make it true. Do you really think that after 9/11 W wasn't smart enough to figure out that the borders needed to be tightened? You think that in the Great Recession and thereafter people kept streaming in when there wasn't much work here? Multiple sources concluded we had a net exodus across the Mexican border for many years. It would be kind ironic for the wall to keep them in, no?

From what I've seen, and discussed in another thread, the facts aren't real exciting, and don't support your narrative. But I guess that's not likely to stop the narrative any time soon.

Mike
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:27 am

coalnewbie wrote:b]Controlled[/b] immigration is step one.


I'm not going to disagree with this at all, we have laws on how someone can lawfully enter this country and that should be the end of it. I don't know if building a wall is the answer because there are other means to strengthen the border, e.g drones and more man power to interdict in more rural areas followed by immediate deportation. Remove incentives such as the anchor baby and make it difficult for them to live here so they deport themselves. Anyone coming in should be young, educated, have X amount of dollars and have a clear business or employment plan.

This may slow down any terrorists from coming in but it's not going to stop them.
Richard S.
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:52 am

Richard S. wrote:
coalnewbie wrote:b]Controlled[/b] immigration is step one.


I'm not going to disagree with this at all, we have laws on how someone can lawfully enter this country and that should be the end of it. I don't know if building a wall is the answer because there are other means to strengthen the border, e.g drones and more man power to interdict in more rural areas followed by immediate deportation. Remove incentives such as the anchor baby and make it difficult for them to live here so they deport themselves. Anyone coming in should be young, educated, have X amount of dollars and have a clear business or employment plan.

This may slow down any terrorists from coming in but it's not going to stop them.


Agreed. We need to go back to enforcing the laws we have for controlling immigration.

And, we already have over 600 miles of walls and fences along the USA/Mexican boarder, with more scheduled to be built. When completed it will cover about 1/3 of the length of the boarder. Much of it was built during obummers time in office. No one complained when obummer does it, so why now ? :roll:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/ ... o-wall.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/27/us/walls- ... thing-new/

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:34 am

Sunny Boy wrote: And, we already have over 600 miles of walls and fences along the USA/Mexican boarder, with more scheduled to be built. When completed it will cover about 1/3 of the length of the boarder. Much of it was built during obummers time in office. No one complained when obummer does it, so why now ?


I can't speak for others. My complaint is with the characterization that border security has been ignored, the racial fearmongering and the false claims regarding the supposed importance of building a large physical wall. As you point out and as discussed elsewhere, a lot of attention has been paid to border security in the aftermath of 9/11. This includes W and Obama making much stronger use of existing laws and procedures to discourage attempts at illegal entry, as well as greater physical security measures. As with almost anything, further improvements may still be possible, but the rhetoric on this has been disconnected from the reality.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:19 pm

I see the pro-illegal immigration types as the only ones playing the race card. It's all they have to use against those who want the government to enforce the existing immigration laws by trying to divert attention.

Anyone calling for the government to uphold the law is automatically labeled a racist. :mad:

Paul
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:34 pm

I don't favor illegal immigration. If you've read my earlier comments, I believe the evidence shows W and Obama have actively improved border security, and I think your own comments about wall construction support that. I favor border security; I still thought Trump's "criminals and rapists" generalization was pretty racist.

Mike
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:07 pm

Pacowy wrote:I don't favor illegal immigration. If you've read my earlier comments, I believe the evidence shows W and Obama have actively improved border security, and I think your own comments about wall construction support that. I favor border security; I still thought Trump's "criminals and rapists" generalization was pretty racist.

Mike


It would be if it was a generalization, but it wasn't. It was just taken out of context by the libs/Dems.

http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawk ... s-n2021225

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:45 pm

The context presented doesn't limit it to illegal aliens, but to me it still seems racist even if you make that assumption. It describes Mexico "sending" us a bunch of people who generally have drug and/or crime problems, with some being "good people". If it is supposed to apply only to illegal immigrants, on its face it is saying that they generally bring drug and/or crime problems (note that the "good people" reference means they are being characterized as criminals for reasons other than immigrating illegally). Still seems pretty racist.

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:40 pm

Pacowy wrote:The context presented doesn't limit it to illegal aliens, but to me it still seems racist even if you make that assumption. It describes Mexico "sending" us a bunch of people who generally have drug and/or crime problems, with some being "good people". If it is supposed to apply only to illegal immigrants, on its face it is saying that they generally bring drug and/or crime problems (note that the "good people" reference means they are being characterized as criminals for reasons other than immigrating illegally). Still seems pretty racist.

Mike


By not providing for their people, and by not affectively blocking south Americans from crossing their southern boarder and allowing them to travel the length of Mexico to get to the US boarder, by extension Mexico is sending them here.

I read that as the "good people" comment was in addition to the bad people, not the same people.

Do you believe that any criticism of criminals who are part of a minority is racist ?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:32 pm

I agree the good people were in addition to the bad people, and all were part of the group Mexico was sending to us about which generalizations were being stated.

And to answer your last question, no. Criminals (let's assume they've been convicted) have done whatever they have done, whatever color, gender, or other characteristics they may have. To me, the racist thing is not identifying instances where a member of a particular ethnic (or other) group is a criminal. It is the generalizing about the group in negative terms without any legitimate basis. If someone knows that Mexico is emptying its prisons and drug treatment centers by busing the occupants to the U.S. border, I don't think its racist for that person to say Mexico is sending us criminals and drug addicts. If someone knows only that some number of Mexicans are entering the country illegally, I think it's racist to extrapolate only from that to make generalizations about the group. If you're an older white guy from PA, does that mean you can be saddled with some undesirable stereotype?

Mike
Pacowy
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:08 pm

If our immigration law was not ignored, you would not have to be so concerned with racism.
franco b
 
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:42 pm

franco b wrote:If our immigration law was not ignored, you would not have to be so concerned with racism.


BINGO ! ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:55 pm

So if Trump is the one saying that immigration law is being ignored, is it still ok for his comments to be racist? Evidence says tightening of border security has been going on for years. Does he get a pass on the exaggeration as well as the racism?

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
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