Are you still voting stupidly

Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:00 am

Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.


So is Maine part of the US, I have never been sure.
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:09 am

coalnewbie wrote:
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.


So is Maine part of the US, I have never been sure.

I'm pretty sure they are a different race. OOPS, does that make me racist :)
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:10 am

coalnewbie wrote:
Each of the major divisions of humankind, having distinct physical characteristics.


So is Maine part of the US, I have never been sure.


You're thinking of Californians which are a different species altogether. Maine was sunk in Havana harbor.
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:45 am

franco b wrote:Hitler had that view of race also. He mistook cultural difference for race, and where does that leave "ethnicity" if "race" is to replace it? Are Germans, Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, Franks, Dutch, and English all separate races now, or is it just their cultures?

Is the enmity of Jews and Arabs racist?

The second part of your post I don't get the point.


As you said, dictionaries report the meanings of words as currently used. Anthropology does not support the definition you prefer, and the other definitions currently used have already been covered. You may choose not to employ those definitions in your own speech, but that doesn't give you some magic power to control what other people say or mean.

What is it about the second part of my post that confuses you?

Mike
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:54 pm

There's nothing "retired" about it. Many people still think of race as not being every group, but of only certain groups. Not everyone goes by your standards.

Trump and we were discussing the government's lack of enforcing immigration laws. There is NOTHING wrong with using Race in that Government context, except for you to try and prove your point.

Is it so hard for you to understand that the government does not recognize Hispanics as a race, but as an ethic group ? And that they based that not on some bureaucrat's notion, but on a socially accepted norm. Your saying it's antiquated doesn't prove true except in certain fields. Fields that we were not using as part of this discussion.

Paul
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:05 pm

Pacowy wrote:Because some of you seem to be unfamiliar with the definition of "race", as in "racism", dictionary.com says:

race

1. a group of persons related by common descent or heredity.

2. a population so related.

3. Anthropology. a.(no longer in technical use) any of the traditional divisions of humankind, the commonest being the Caucasian, Mongoloid, and Negro, characterized by supposedly distinctive and universal physical characteristics.
b.an arbitrary classification of modern humans, sometimes, especially formerly, based on any or a combination of various physical characteristics, as skin color, facial form, or eye shape, and now frequently based on such genetic markers as blood groups.
c. a socially constructed category of identification based on physical characteristics, ancestry, historical affiliation, or shared culture:
Her parents wanted her to marry within her race.
d. a human population partially isolated reproductively from other populations, whose members share a greater degree of physical and genetic similarity with one another than with other humans.

4. a group of tribes or peoples forming an ethnic lineage:
the Slavic race.

5. any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.:
the Dutch race.

franco b, unless you burn all of the dictionaries and can persuade everybody that being "primarily Caucasian" means you are exempt from racism, I'm afraid you're the one here who "doesn't know better". cn, if you can point out any place where I've been inaccurate, please let me know. Beyond that, I don't really see the point of you trying to categorize me as anything. Does that excuse you from dealing with the content of what I say?

Mike


I am sorry, Mike, but I completely missed that post.

I had not realized how thoroughly newthink has penetrated anthropology. Seems like Conservatives and Liberals are separate races, as well as the people of thousands of small towns across the country. So Hitler was right after all in classifying Jews as a race. There must be many thousands and thousands of races in the world and most could qualify as members of many races according to the parameters you laid out.

Those parameters are so broad that it makes almost everyone a separate race. Because I don't like Hillary I am a racist and you are too in not liking Trump. They are two different races. All you need are separate cultural beliefs.

Based on that you are entirely correct.

My problem is that there are so many races now that it will be too easy to be a racist if i dislike someone, and don't want to be a racist.

I am still uneasy though about flooding the country with alien culture, if that is not too racist. Unfortunately hundreds of thousands of years of genetic evolution has shaped man to prefer those of his own culture and belief system. Somehow I like the American flag better than the Mexican.
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:25 pm

It appears that they have taken what was once an objectively definable word and applied the vagueness of subjectivity to it.
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:54 pm

lsayre wrote:It appears that they have taken what was once an objectively definable word and applied the vagueness of subjectivity to it.


If identical twins are separated at birth and one raised as a Jew and one an Arab they are then members of different races.

The absurdity of the whole thing is the product of global think. The makeover of man according to wishful thinking, just as communism is and was.
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:30 pm

Well if race is so broadly defined in the "anything goes" world of newthink that it becomes a useless descriptive word, seems it's just more of the same over-educated intellectual's race to the bottom. ;)

Paul
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 3:53 pm

fb, I'm glad if finding that post helped clarify in some way what I was trying to get at. To be fair, I don't think there has been a long history of use for the term racism, and things like the U.S. melting pot and globalization have given rise to changes, or at least diversification, in ways people historically have thought of racial issues. I can't help what the dictionary reports as the different meanings of race as currently used, or the obsolescence of the older definition in the science of anthropology. As a practical matter, I think it boils down to the proposition that it is no better to make unfounded, derogatory generalizations about any reasonably defined socio-demographic group than it is to make such generalizations about "Negroes", "Mongoloids", etc.. The problem is with the generalizations, and it doesn't go away when different group definitions are used.

Sorry, Paul, but I don't think you'll find any reference to or reliance on the "classical" definition of race anywhere in U.S. immigration policy. AFAIK it all is based on country of origin, without regard to the classical definition.

Mike
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:46 pm

Mike,

You missed Franco's meaning. Try looking up the word "Facetious". ;)

Paul
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:57 pm

Pacowy wrote:fb, I'm glad if finding that post helped clarify in some way what I was trying to get at. To be fair, I don't think there has been a long history of use for the term racism, and things like the U.S. melting pot and globalization have given rise to changes, or at least diversification, in ways people historically have thought of racial issues. I can't help what the dictionary reports as the different meanings of race as currently used, or the obsolescence of the older definition in the science of anthropology. As a practical matter, I think it boils down to the proposition that it is no better to make unfounded, derogatory generalizations about any reasonably defined socio-demographic group than it is to make such generalizations about "Negroes", "Mongoloids", etc.. The problem is with the generalizations, and it doesn't go away when different group definitions are used.

Sorry, Paul, but I don't think you'll find any reference to or reliance on the "classical" definition of race anywhere in U.S. immigration policy. AFAIK it all is based on country of origin, without regard to the classical definition.

Mike


Don't be sorry, your partly right. You got the letter "c" right, ..... but the rest of the word is spelled "current".

Don't think so,.... then go argue with US Government if you want to continue to debate US government policies and what candidates for the President of the US government are saying. If you want to mix other meanings of the word "race" in then go debate an anthropologist about the fine points of race verses ethnicity. Changing the parameters to suit your argument isn't winning you any points in trying to make Trump's statement out to be racist.

Paul
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:43 pm

Some races can and do cross breed with other races. This fact(?) was apparently known in antiquity.

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
--Genesis 6:4

Perhaps at one time the gods in general were not considered to be quite as high up on the 'god ladder' as we seem to envision them today. A historical vestige of visitors from another planet or solar system, or pure fantasy? Does the last line refer to the Nephelim themselves as being the sons of God, or to their offspring? The text simply isn't clear on this. So must we go to a dictionary that also has no real clue for the answer (which it most assuredly provides)?

Is the dictionary correct? If the Nephelim were (as is presumed) one of the races intentionally wiped out by god in the flood, then why did god inspire them to be pronounced as "renown"?

Better see what the definition of renown is. (etc.., etc...)

And as an aside, how many sons does god have?
Last edited by lsayre on Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:06 pm

lsayre wrote:Some races can and do cross breed with other races. This fact(?) was apparently known in antiquity.

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.
--Genesis 6:4

Perhaps at one time the gods in general were not considered to be quite as high up on the 'god ladder' as we seem to envision them today. A historical vestige of visitors from another planet or solar system, or pure fantasy? Does the last line refer to the Nephelim themselves as being the sons of God, or to their offspring? The text simply isn't clear on this. So must we go to a dictionary that also has no real clue for the answer (which is most assuredly provides)? Is the dictionary correct?


What does going back in time have to do with what Trump said ? Get back in the Delorean, set the date for may 30, 2016, floor it up to 88 mph and join us. :D

Paul
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Re: Are you still voting stupidly

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:09 pm

Just having fun with words. Dictionary definitions are a lot like statistics. There is so much one can do with them, including having loads of fun.

My contention is that voting itself is inevitably voting stupidly. One would have to be omniscient in order to vote correctly. Does this add relevance?
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