Some things to think about

Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:19 pm

I'm not really a political activist but the business man in me has long understood the actual mechanism by which this country's economy has been assaulted. The allowance of far eastern trade goods to be imported without high tarrifs or limits. Japan was able to wedge a foothold in the states by selling the cheapest cars available. Period. In order to make a profit selling their cars so cheap, they were forced to streamline their manufacturing processes. After gaining market share it was the systematic aquisition of the key components that held their manufacturing costs high. With cars it was the steel. Later, with electronics, it is the control of the chip manufacturing. Always Americans not fully understanding the consequenses of not buying American made goods. Always goverment supporting the massive trade imbalance.

The icing on the cake would be the business practices of President B.C. His lasting claim to fame will not be the Monica issue. Later, when there is no American industry, people will understand the damage done by that simple minded twit. His sponsership of the NAFTA trade agreement and his fund cutting of security forces caused the stripping of American trade secrets thru Industrial espionage. What little we had we lost.

America has become the world's biggest consumer nation. In a relatively short time ( to Asians) our roles have been reversed China and India are the current Manufacturing giants. America's industrial age was puny compared to the rate that those two countries are growing. We are their market. They grow to feed us.

Here is a thought. How can they afford the fuel to transport the iron ore, the nickel, the coal,and other raw materials to China from the middle of the U.S. acrost half our country, acrost the pacific ocean, manufacture the stainless steel, forge it into augers, ship them back acrost the pacific, transport them acrost the entire U.S. to Pa. and still have the cheapest auger here?

This has to change soon before it's too late.
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x4, 700. Van Wert 1200.
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: e.alleg On: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:23 pm

Here is a thought. How can they afford the fuel to transport the iron ore, the nickel, the coal,and other raw materials to China from the middle of the U.S. acrost half our country, acrost the pacific ocean, manufacture the stainless steel, forge it into augers, ship them back acrost the pacific, transport them acrost the entire U.S. to Pa. and still have the cheapest auger here?


It's simple, China doesn't have as many rules and regulations as we have in US. The average American steel worker probably makes $25 an hour, add to that the inspectors, taxes, lawyer fees, safety precautions, quality controls, EPA rules, DEC rules, OSHA, Unions, insurance, sick days, paid vacations, pensions, etc.. and he consumes probably $100 per hour or more every hour he works. The worker in China costs $0.10 an hour. Figure in the transportation costs and it still doesn't equal out. That's why an American made pipe fitting costs $25 and a Chinese one costs $5.00, and most of that $5.00 is store profit and transportation from the dock.

China solved their problem of not having enough steel, the salvage yards are paying $300 a ton for it in some areas! There is no shortage, hillbillies and executives alike are collecting every bit of it and cashing it in.
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:14 am

China's pollution problem is enormous,

Edit: forgot how big this image is, linked instead:
http://nepacrossroads.com/download/file.php?id=1439

They are all going to be dead before they can reap the rewards. The Chinese have gone through their own industrial revolution similar to that of the U.S at the turn of the century, where the two situations fork is the Chinese are doing it with unrestrained modern technology and tools. I read an interesting article about all these old computer parts and how they "recycle" them. They import them then simply incinerate everthing in the open before further processing to recover the gold and other valuable minerals. It's not only China but its also done in many nations.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:10 am

Richard S. wrote:Are we THAT stupid?

Granted, the war is expensive,, just how ridiculous is the above spending??

Greg L

.


Morning Greg,

A few Points:

1. Where are those figure from? (Where did you get them?)
2. If true, who's to blame? (we've had a Republican controlled Congress & WH for 7 of the last 8 years.
3. At least that money is being spent right here in the US.
4. The Iraq Occupation could be stopped "cold" tomorrow by getting out troops out of an Iraqi civil war. Those other expenses are much more difficult to stop.

Now I'll have my coffee!
(another cold morning up here with no coalstove :( )
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:32 am

Devil5052 wrote:
1. Where are those figure from? (Where did you get them?)


He's got links for them didn't view them all but the first one has the numbers and cites where the data came from.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:40 am

Richard S. wrote:
Devil5052 wrote:
1. Where are those figure from? (Where did you get them?)


He's got links for them didn't view them all but the first one has the numbers and cites where the data came from.


Thanks Richard. The link brings me too: "The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)", a group I never heard of & I think it unwise to just accept it's figures without verifying anyway. (You can have statistics support any position you want)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:55 am

Devil5052 wrote:Thanks Richard. The link brings me too: "The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR)", a group I never heard of & I think it unwise to just accept it's figures without verifying anyway. (You can have statistics support any position you want)


If you read the article you will see they make citations where the data or information came from. If the cited sources are legitimate is another story, however in that particular there is quite a few very legitiamte sources such as the Census. If you follow the first link the citation for that points to an article wriiten by Steven A. Camarota, MA, PhD

Profile here: <removed dead link>

He's testified before Congress...
Richard S.
 
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: billw On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:07 am

Even if the figures are overstated I have a real problem with illegal immigration of this magnitude. Mexico's population is approx 160 million. The last figures I saw was that illegal immigrants are estimated between 12 - 20 million. That's 10% of their population here illegally. I don't have a problem with immigration, my grandparents moved here from Italy to get away from Mussolini, but if we choose not to enforce our borders we really don't have a country.

I don't blame anyone for doing what they have to to feed their family. IMO we have taken the wrong course of action with the illegal immigration problem. We are trying to stop the effect and ignore the cause. The cause of all of this are the businesses paying minimum wage, no benefits and many times paying 'under the table' which means the employer doesn't pay the unemployment tax etc on those workers. The laws are already on the books to go after these companies all we, as a country, need to do is enforce them.

I hear that same tired old response that the illegals are doing what Americans won't do. That's dead wrong in most cases. They use construction as one of the examples. Are you kidding me! All of my wife's family make their living in construction, from general laborers, sheet metal mechanics and electricians. They'll do the work, just not for 9.00 an hour. The companies claim they are holding costs down. No they aren't, they are adding to their bottom line at the expense of society in general (US).

Enough of my babbling. I need to go dig a hole. I want to get my double flued chimney up before it gets to be 90 degrees outside.
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:23 am

billw wrote:I hear that same tired old response that the illegals are doing what Americans won't do. That's dead wrong in most cases. They use construction as one of the examples. Are you kidding me! All of my wife's family make their living in construction, from general laborers, sheet metal mechanics and electricians. They'll do the work, just not for 9.00 an hour. The companies claim they are holding costs down. No they aren't, they are adding to their bottom line at the expense of society in general (US).


Agree, I was talking with a construction working from down near Philly and he said it was impossible to try and keep a decent Job with a decent wage. He said the illegals would work right through the break and even lunch. If you're the construction company owner and the competition is using these people you have no choice but to do it yourself, that or go out of business.

I heard a very interesting argument specifically about the crop pickers. If they weren't there to do it and no American wanted to do it someone would invent something that would. When you think about it that makes perfect sense, wasn't possible in the past because they didn't have the technology but certainly is this day and age if they can make a robot that can practically think for itself they could invent one to pick tomatoes.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: billw On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:29 am

Dam Richard you're making me nervous. Usually I get told I'm a lunatic about my political opinions. That's why I don't normally talk about this stuff. :)
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:53 am

Well I gree because its the truth, you know maybe American's won't do that work because its not worth it for minimum wage. If you pay enough you'll get the workers, prices may go up but who cares you have more money in the economy to spend. When I was teenager there was a tomato farm near here that would hirer teenagers during the picking season, if you wanted a few bucks you'd go down get a job. They'd hire anyone, think you only had to be like 12 or 13. Many new bikes were purchased with picking money, good experience for the kid. Can't do that nowadays though even if you had enough kids to do it,
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: spc On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:11 pm

Being from the (democrat) run state of RI this is amazing:
"Illegal Immigrants, Partly Blamed for State Budget Crisis, Face Crackdown in Rhode Island"

Gov. Don Carcieri (R) says illegal immigration has become such a problem — and cost the state so much money at a time that it is grappling with a $568 million budget deficit — that last month he signed an executive order directing state police to crack down on illegal immigrants.
The governor also supports bills pending in the legislature that would make English the official state language and make it a felony to rent a home to an illegal immigrant."

He will be fighting protesters along the way, but thank God for Governors like this. :D
spc
 
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:28 pm

spc wrote:The governor also supports bills pending in the legislature that would make English the official state language and make it a felony to rent a home to an illegal immigrant."



There's a town near here called Hazleton that did the very same thing, they got ruled against in court but they are appealing.


http://www.citizensvoice.com/site/news. ... 5154&rfi=6

A federal judge has struck down the Illegal Immigration Relief Act, ruling Hazleton's proposed crackdown on landlords and employers doing business with illegal immigrants is unconstitutional.


What am I missing here? don't you need to be a citizen to have rights in this country?
Richard S.
 
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: spc On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:03 pm

The federal judge is re-writing law from his bench. :x
spc
 
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:00 pm

Ok just to change the subject a little. Do you guys remember being kids, having to wait until the adults ate before you ate?
I was thinking of this today. By the time I fixed my kids plates and got them sat down and eating.. Mine was cold. When I was a kid the adults ate first and then the kids. idk Did yall have to do this?
cArNaGe