Some things to think about

Some things to think about

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:22 pm

I'm sure this will get plenty of heated rebutal. But they are valid points..

In Just One Year:

Part 1:
In just one year. Remember the election in 2006?
Thought you might like to read the following. A little over one year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high ;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) The unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we have seen:

1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) The cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3.50 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!

Remember it's Congress that makes law not the President. He has to work with what's handed to him.

Quote of the Day........'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.' -- Barack Obama

Part 2:
Taxes...Whether Democrat or a Republican you will find these statistics enlightening and amazing.
http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-fed ... d-brackets

Taxes under Clinton 1999 Taxes under Bush 2008
Single making 30K - tax $8,400 Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $14,000 Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $23,250 Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K - tax $16,800 Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $21,000 Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $38,750 Married making 125K - tax $31,250
Both democratic candidates will return to the higher tax rates.

It is amazing how many people that fall into the categories above think Bush is screwing them and Bill Clinton was the greatest Presiden t ever. If Obama or Hillary are elected, they both say they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and a good portion of the people that fall into the categories above can't wait for it to happen. This is like the movie The Sting with Paul Newman; you scam somebody out of some money and they don't even know what happened.



The tax part is enlightening.. kind of puts a different 'spin' on the commonly said comment about the Republican party,, giving 'tax breaks for the rich'...

As for the Democratic congress.. I have to admit, it is a bit simplistic.. it's actually politics as usual. But the Media, empowered by it's success at reporting all the negative about Republican administration for the 2006 election, is continuing to push the consumer confidence down by reporting on it every 10 minutes, and all the other negative reporting.. gets old,, and depressing..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:18 pm

Hey Greg. I know this is going to shock you but I disagree with your analysis. The way I think about the present circumstance we are in is this:
1. GW Bush has been President for almost 8 years & most of that time he had a Republican controlled Congress that did not perform the checks & balances as required by the Constitution, but merely acted as a rubber stamp to all his Executive decisions.
2. In the last eight years, largely due to GW Bush & the Republican controlled Congress, a culture of corporate greed has swept over this country to the point that the middle class is in real danger of joining the poor. We are really becoming a 2 class society: The Super Rich & The Poor. (& guess were most of us will end up?)
3. I read your post as basically saying: "Things were going great in this country & the world until, in less than one year, those "Tax & Spend" liberal Democrats managed to change the "Utopia" we were living in into the "hell hole" we now find ourselves in."

Sorry Greg.....I just don't buy it.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:26 pm

The one issue with any of those "look at where we are now" arguments is that many of those things can be attributed to things that were years in the making. For example from your list the housing crisis can't be attributed to the dems, that was caused by bad loans made to people many years ago... I'll stop here, I'm sure Devil and stockingfull will be able to fill the rest in. :lol:
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:35 pm

Richard S. wrote:The one issue with any of those "look at where we are now" arguments is that many of those things can be attributed to things that were years in the making. For example from your list the housing crisis can't be attributed to the dems, that was caused by bad loans made to people many years ago... I'll stop here, I'm sure Devil and stockingfull will be able to fill the rest in. :lol:


Speaking for myself, I see all the horrors as taking place in the last 8 years. Just my opinion, & I never voted for B. Clinton once, but look at the country,economy & world he left to his successor & then look at the mess GW will leave.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: billw On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:57 pm

When either party has total control of the government we get screwed. The dems taxed and spent, the republicans borrowed and spent. It just depends on who those fools spend it on. The dems want to 'protect' the poor. While that is a noble effort on it's surface, every gov't program designed to do just that is mismanaged at best. The repubs want to protect the big companies. Seems they believe in privatizing profits and socializing losses. Bear Sterns should have been allowed to go bankrupt. One of their competitors would've picked up the business.

A good example of split government working was the latest deal with the chips program. The dems wanted to raise the eligibility requirements to a family making 60,000. The repubs vetoed it. A common sense compromise was worked out. If the dems held all the power that bill would've passed. My wife and I make around 60K a year combined. We raised our 3 kids just fine without the dam government sticking their nose in my affairs.

This time I'll vote Repub for president, not because I like McCain, but because I like split government. We need the checks and balances of a two party system.

I don't think the government has any control over fuel prices. It's a function of speculators running up the price and those pesky 1 billion Chinese and half a billion Indians. How dare them want to drive cars and have heated homes. Don't they know they are using our oil. :D

Dam, I hate getting involved with political discussions but I couldn't let this one go and yes I'm an independent. In other words an equal opportunity abuser. 8-)
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:11 pm

Devil5052 wrote: Just my opinion, & I never voted for B. Clinton once, but look at the country,economy & world he left to his successor & then look at the mess GW will leave.


Clinton had the luxury of not having to deal with the things Bush has, I don't think you can make fair comparison under any circumstances.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:01 pm

billw wrote:When either party has total control of the government we get screwed. The dems taxed and spent, the republicans borrowed and spent. It just depends on who those fools spend it on.



Some good points here billw! As much as I come off as a typical Massachusetts liberal, I really am more independent & even conservative on a number of important issues. As mush as I rail against the current crop of Republicans, it is because I feel they are Republican in name only! Since when is it a Republican concept that we need to be the world's policemen? Or that we should be the "Nation Builders" that GW Bush was so much against when he was a candidate back in 2000? I tend to be conservative when it comes to gun ownership, but can accept some "reasonable" restraints. Fiscally, I agree with you about the Bear Sterns bailout. This administration doesn't have any problem with families losing their homes, but rushes to the aid of their corporate buddies. I am pro-choice but would never consider agreeing with any family member to have an abortion when so many people can't have children & would adopt in a heartbeat.
You have a point with seeing one party controlling all of Washington as a potential problem.......BUT.......after almost 8 years of Republican control, I'd like to give the Democrats a few years to "run amok" & maybe get universal health care implemented & more aid to college kids. ( My oldest Grandson will be looking at college within the next 3 years) I really like Obama's idea of repaying part of your loan through service to the country.
Devil505
 
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: Lumberjack On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:50 pm

The sharp rise in oil has long been predicted and ignored by both sides. It was simply more expediant to tell the masses that everything would be alright and not take the steps needed to prepare this country for the day oil was no longer cheap. Instead of forcing Americans to conserve and seek alternatives to oil the politicians choose instead to subsidise big oil and try to control foriegn oil fields through dubious politics and foriegn policies.

The current housing crises was perfectly predictable. Congress ordered that lenders make funds more availible to areas they normally avoided and the market responded by making loans that were completely irrational. Loaning 135 percent of an inflated house value to someone with no down payment and no vested intrest in thier purchase while at the same time not requiring any real proof of thier ability to repay the loan was just plain stupid. From there things went downhill as the financiers figured out how to make even more money by foreclosing off those same bad loans and pawning the result off as a security.

Bear sterns was needed because its failure would have resulted in the entire banking and finance industry failing. Personally I think in the long run it is simply a delay tactic and we will end up with a much larger problem in the end.

Half truthes are the worst kind of lie and I can never tell if I feel worse for those that believe them or those that spread them. Bush's only real claim is his war in Iraq and the trillions congress borrowed to pay for it. Congress has always had the power to end it and choose not to. Both parties are to blame for our current troubles and none of the candidates have any intention of doing what is needed to stop our downslide.

I will only come to the voting booth when there is a none of the above box I can check.....

BTW Which ever side that wins will be blamed for everything that is coming and almost inevitable. All that is left is to hope the independants run a real candidate......
Lumberjack
 

Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: billw On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:32 pm

I'd like to give the Democrats a few years to "run amok" & maybe get universal health care implemented & more aid to college kids.


This is where we differ. I don't ever want to see one party control the whole enchalada again. Both parties have proven time and again they cannot be trusted with total control. We need to reign in the politicians and their insane spending habits before this country is reduced to a banana republic. The politicians keep telling us about all of these great new programs they are going to enact but not how they are going to pay for it. If we ran our households or business like these bafoons run our government we would all be broke. I guess you can tell I'm not a fan of big government.

I know what you're saying though about college. I've got two kids through and working on the third. I won't be able to retire until I'm at least 70 but it was worth it. My two oldest that already graduated will no doubt far surpass me as far as income potential is concerned, probably my biggest accomplishment in my lifetime. I keep telling them before they get married and settle down they need to chip in and buy dear old dad a street rod. I guess I'll have to build my own. :D
billw
 
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: e.alleg On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:09 pm

I'd like to see a poll of the Bush haters that rip up their economic stimulus checks. The current state of the nation should be of no surprise to anyone. We are a nation at war which is spending copious amounts of money that needs to be paid back. 5 years ago unemployment was so high that the government gave extensions on benefits an additional 13 weeks. Unemployment didn't go away, once the laid off workers stop receiving benefits they are no longer classified as "unemployed" on the percentage rate. I'd bet the actual unemployment rate in America is 15% or more, meaning 15% of Americans that are looking for permanent work can't find it outside of the Armed forces. Our nation is in debt just as the average American is in debt. I have zero sympathy for the morons who bought a $100k house for $300k, got it appraised for $500k and now has $400,000 in negative equity. What are people thinking? There is a crisis going on with the price of fuel. Not only did the price of everything go up due to higher costs to get the goods to market but at the same time we have less money to spend. Inflation, my good coal burning friends, is the secret tax that pays for the wars. The gov. spent trillions, the easiest way to pay it back is to make your dollar worth less. There is no better way to steal .25 out of every dollar you make than to make your dollar worth .75 without even telling you.
e.alleg
 
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:29 pm

Devil5052 wrote: maybe get universal health care implemented


There going to have that all screwed up. They had piece on PBS about wekk ago about other universal care sytems around the world. There was three points that all of them had that made them successful. If I remeber correctly:

  • The hospitals all had to charge the same price.
  • Mandatory enrollment for everyone
  • The insurace companies had to accept anyone and it was flat fee.

Good luck getting them to implement that and even if they do they'll figure out a way to siphon money off the top for some more pork. We nned to do something though, starting off with the last point would probably do the most.

billw wrote: I don't ever want to see one party control the whole enchalada again. Both parties have proven time and again they cannot be trusted with total control. We need to reign in the politicians and their insane spending habits before this country is reduced to a banana republic. The politicians keep telling us about all of these great new programs they are going to enact but not how they are going to pay for it. If we ran our households or business like these bafoons run our government we would all be broke. I guess you can tell I'm not a fan of big government.


Bingo, I'd take it step further and say a bipartisan government can't be trusted. We need a third or even fourth party to throw a monkey wrench into it. I'd also add term limits to the list.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: billw On: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:44 am

We need a third or even fourth party to throw a monkey wrench into it. I'd also add term limits to the list.

Absolutely! I voted for Perot twice and was hoping Bloomberg ran as an indie this time around. Nothing feels better than sticking your finger in the eye of the two party system. Term limits for congress is a great idea. The argument against it is they wouldn't be there long enough to amass power to 'get anything done'. He!! that's the whole idea. The playing field would be leveled and there wouldn't be as much pork barrel spending. Geez, nobody in congress having the muscle to build bridges and roads to nowhere. What a novel idea.
billw
 
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Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:56 am

billw wrote:The playing field would be leveled and there wouldn't be as much pork barrel spending. Geez, nobody in congress having the muscle to build bridges and roads to nowhere. What a novel idea.


There's a guy who just won the other day here who has committed to not accepting earmarks. If he gets elected in November that will probably be his first and last election. You have to give him credit but when it comes down to it he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. He's not going to get anything, not only that if he starts making waves there is a good chance they are going to be steering as much money away from his district as possible. They all need to do it, not just one.

That bridge is nothing, the Cornerstone project Kanjorski pushed through which you must be aware of takes the cake.

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site/ne ... 5898&rfi=6

U.S. Rep. Paul E. Kanjorski touted Cornerstone Technologies LLC as a way to spin anthracite into lightweight carbon fibers, building a high-tech future from Northeastern Pennsylvania’s coal-mining past.

But eight years after it was launched by the Nanticoke Democrat’s relatives, the firm has collapsed into bankruptcy, leaving behind bad debt, embittered former employees and lingering ethics questions about $10 million in federal contracts Mr. Kanjorski helped secure for Cornerstone. The company’s vision of producing advanced materials for the Navy never left the drawing board.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Somethings to think about

PostBy: billw On: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:06 am

Yeah Kanjorski is a piece of work. I'm not in his district anymore since they moved the back mountain area to Chris Carney, not sure of the district numbers. I hope Lou Barletta kicks his butt to the curb. Of course he's a republican running in the democratic strongholds of Scranton, Wilkes-Barre and Hazleton cities. I don't think he has a chance but there is always hope. Dam, I hate career politicians.
billw
 
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Re: Some things to think about

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:06 pm

Here is another 'thinking point'

You think the war in Iraq is costing us too much?

Read this:
Boy am I confused. I have been hammered with the propaganda that it is the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us. I now find this information. I hope the following 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I have included the URL's for verification of all the following facts:
1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify at: http://tinyurl.com/zob77
2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/f
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
iscalexec.ht ml
3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fis
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
calexec.htm l
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
/01/ldt.0.html
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html
7. 30% percent of all Federa l Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
Verify at :
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American w ages are caused by the illegal aliens.
Ver ify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html
10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to mak e a huge additional crime problem in the US.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt..01.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border.
Verify at: Homeland Security Report: http://tinyurl.com/t9sht
12. The National Policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $2 30 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
Ver ify at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/ ... tation.pdf
13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
Verify at: http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
14. The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States.
Ver ify at:
http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

The total cost is a whopping $338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.

Are we THAT stupid?

Granted, the war is expensive,, just how ridiculous is the above spending??

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
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