heating large shop in Alaska

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:34 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:I unfortunately had the experience of working on my OWB in -8* with 35 mph wind blowing snow around,it is very hard on the fingers & ones mental stability. I cannot imagine doing that at -45*


And of course when it is really cold everything is stressed and more likely to break down. With your truck box it probably would be cozy for quite awhile.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

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Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:24 am

I agree with working on things outside when cold and so far Knock on wood that has not happened. No matter what this summer I am moving the circulator inside the shop to ease that mechanical issue if it arises plus for me to keep an eye on it more often.

I agree that inside would be better and allow me to use the heat that is being wasted to the air. My biggest concern with inside are boil overs. I guess I could try to figure a way to turn on the heaters when and if the water temps start reaching boiling points to help shed that heat. I know there are controllers out there that can assist but wiring all of that seems out of my league at this point... not to mention very costly.

I agree that water in this environment can be dangerous hence why if I had it to over again I would have stayed with hand fired radiant all the way and the reason for my initial question on a retrofit... but most likely without knowing I probably would be looking at boilers thinking that was the magic bullet... I am exploring the option to move the boiler inside and hopefully that will be a viable option.

All in all it could be worse.. non of this could be working but at least I have a shop that is holding heat... now to just fine tune it.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:44 am

A reverse or B aquastat makes contact on a temperature rise. Wiring should be simple. 80 dollars or less. Should solve any boil over problem. You did note that when the heaters are running they do absorb all that the boiler produces
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:52 am

Franco:

Yes that is the case. I have had a few instances where the boiler was in idle mode... no heaters running... and the temp was set to stay at 150 and due to excessive draft the water heated to well past this point... turned the heaters and resolved the problem no issues.

So it sounds like keep the current aqua stat to turn on the fan to build heat and install another aqua stat to wash heat if ever needed.

I will post some pictures of the inside of the boiler to garner information on how this summer I can change the flue design. Currently has only a 6 foot stack yet it still drafts like crazy thus heating water past the set points and wasting heat out the stack... I think changing the inside design would make it more efficient.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:29 am

The stack is not what is causing the draft to run away. You need to find where intake air is getting into the fire & better control that by sealing or whatever.

Is this unit a natural draft or forced draft ?
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:04 am

I think it would make a great hot air furnace! Cut big hole in the top, slots in the side. Full length. Get rid of the water. As tall as it is, it would be just like a radiator with an enclosure. The air would enter the bottom, get heated and shoot out the top. It would work better than your WM and with the bigger firebox would give you longer tend times. Would work great with no electricity and you wouldn't have to worry about it freezing up.
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:18 am

Scottscoaled wrote:I think it would make a great hot air furnace! Cut big hole in the top, slots in the side. Full length. Get rid of the water. As tall as it is, it would be just like a radiator with an enclosure. The air would enter the bottom, get heated and shoot out the top. It would work better than your WM and with the bigger firebox would give you longer tend times. Would work great with no electricity and you wouldn't have to worry about it freezing up.


I like this, but would the natural air circulation be enough to prevent overheating of the unit? I suspect it would go red hot without a blower.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: lzaharis On: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:55 am

The Evergreen Sequoyah wood and coal boiler model is a forced draft wood and coal boiler with a horizontal squirrel cage blower that uses a solenoid controlled damper that drops by gravity to seal the inlet of the forced draft blower when the high setting limit is satisfied.

There is an ash pit door that allows the ashes to be removed using an ash drawer and also a firebox door that allows the end user to fill the firebox with wood or coal after the combustion fan is shut off and the smoke bypass door handle is moved to permit the firebox door to be opened without a blow back condition with the fire exiting through the fire door.
lzaharis
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker

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Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:08 am

franco b wrote:
Scottscoaled wrote:I think it would make a great hot air furnace! Cut big hole in the top, slots in the side. Full length. Get rid of the water. As tall as it is, it would be just like a radiator with an enclosure. The air would enter the bottom, get heated and shoot out the top. It would work better than your WM and with the bigger firebox would give you longer tend times. Would work great with no electricity and you wouldn't have to worry about it freezing up.


I like this, but would the natural air circulation be enough to prevent overheating of the unit? I suspect it would go red hot without a blower.

This wouldn't end up being a thin skinned beast. I think the boiler jacket would be at least 1/4" plate both sides. The fire would have to be totally run away to make it "red hot". It is also a taller kind of thing so the circulation would build up considerably more than a short 2-3" stove. It is 6-7' tall. BIG hole in the top. Long slots the full length on the bottom sides and back. Promote flow. I think it would work great! There must be someone out there who has done something along these lines.
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:13 am

Sc: So far you are the only vote for an idea like this.

Izaharis answered the question of forced or natural draft. His description was spot on..except it does not have a smoke bypass door or handle... something that I wish it did have.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:44 pm

Another issue... from previous post i stated that I had the two hydronic heaters wired direct to the boiler.. i.e. no heat exchanger... remember this is an open system. Water flows continuously throughout the pipes and heaters and when I want heat I just plugged them in and let the fans blow. I was having issues with it consuming large amounts of coal and slowing losing water temps in the boiler. I assumed it was due to the fact that the heaters never cut off and thus just over taxed the boiler. I wired a line voltage thermostat to the heater fans and placed it at 45 degrees and let her run. They did cycle but still the boiler crashed and would not maintain a tending time frame overnight. I thought with the cycling and keeping the barn just at 45 it would allow the water to heat up hotter (set at 180) thus making the heaters run less to push the heat in the shop turn off and heat water (you get the picture). I am not sure what the problem is. I do not see how a heat exchanger will help and losing my patience with this beast :mad: .. The guy I bought it from heated his home and DHW and had tending times of every 8-10 hours on about 160 - 200 pounds of coal.. I am getting only 4-6 hours on the same amount and when I get to it 6 hours later the temps are down below 120-- after 8 hours it was at 96... no better than my WM and I figure the needed BTUs is in the 50K range. Other data .. I am running 20 degree delta with very little loss throughout the underground pipe. Firebox has been lined with extra firebrick... I am at a loss. More and more I am thinking move this beast inside to capture what little heat it is shedding the outside and maybe do as Scottscoal suggested just make it a radiator heater without the water.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:27 pm

AC1,
I have a lead now on a Will-Burt S-20 Bituminous Coal Stoker and can even get it's mated "octopus type" warm air furnace w/ "donut h/x" with it also if you might like to explore going this route. Although this stoker alone might be able to be fitted under a boiler vessel, just as well. :)

I believe the S-20 can feed our bit coal at up to a rate of 50lbs/hr. YMMV w/ your sub-bit coal. ;)

BTW: Fastenal would be a strong contender for the freight carrier service, as was mentioned earlier in this thread.

http://www.airheaters.info/coal-firing/stoker-firing.html
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:12 pm

Old post but was a fellow using your same Alaska coal:

Sub bituminous stocker boiler
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: AlaskaCoal1 On: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:15 pm

Any idea on the price of this model. Shipping to Alaska has been the long pole in the tent... that along with the other long pole called my wife. :D

I did some serious looking at the boiler and more and more I am thinking that it needs to be inside. I hate the mess and the fact that now I will have to haul coal from the back of the shop instead of just shoveling strait into the beast.. designed it that way to keep the mess out and ease of operation. Not to mention expensive pipe in the ground that would not be needed.

After looking at the beast the design of the flue is stupid... it comes straight down to within what appears to be 12-16 inches of the grates and at times I bury it in coal... so it pulls right off the top of this coal and out the flue... this has to be heating the world as my dad use to say. One thought is to cut this pipe up higher and put an elbow on the end forcing it to draft differently and hoping that some of that heat will make it into the water instead our out the flue so quickly.
AlaskaCoal1
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sequoya Outdoor boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC, Warm Morning 500
Baseburners & Antiques: Beckwith Round Oak
Coal Size/Type: Alaska Sub Bit Lump

Re: heating large shop in Alaska

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:22 pm

why not create a mud room for your beast...
put the boiler inside the shell of your building...
have the loading door be in the mud room then a door to the outside...
load the cart outside with bit...
roll the cart in to load...
out of the bitter cold...
but keeping the mess out of the building proper...
You can resell that piping...
or run it to a outdoor hot tub... ;) :lol:
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

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