Selling AA 260M

Kendallt09 · Post by **Kendallt09** » Thu. Oct. 13, 2016 10:17 pm

I am posting my grandmothers Axeman Anderson 260 m. I am not exactly sure how old it is, probably 1981, my grandfather bought it from the borough when they took it out of the borough building in rockwood 15-20 years ago. I personally have been doing the maintenance to this boiler for the bast 5+ years since my grandfathers health declined. a few years ago we replaced the funnel between the ash area and the chimney tube. last fall we replaced the gear for the ash shaker, the 1Hr timer, relief valve, fan gear box, and the main control board. the only real problem with it is the wrap that was on the feed tube is starting to peal. I would clean it up and possibly paint it if needed. It is still installed that I could put a fire in it right now and heat the house.

I really don't want to sell the boiler but it is too big for my grams small house and she can't maintain a fire by herself and with it being too big it either makes her water temp go up too high or it goes out. my house is not water. I am in the process of putting her a new propane boiler so I can control it better for her at all times.

Asking $5000 OBO for it. It is located in Rockwood Pennsylvania.

Also have small regular coal boiler that hasn't been used except to burnt paper/cardboard for a few years (since I learned how to run the AA properly)

ziggy87 · Post by **ziggy87** » Fri. Oct. 14, 2016 12:08 am

That is a 260 by looking at your pictures.

Kendallt09 · Post by **Kendallt09** » Fri. Oct. 14, 2016 7:43 am

May I ask the difference?

Post by **coaledsweat** » Fri. Oct. 14, 2016 7:46 am

It is in fact a 260 M, looks like it was manufactured in 1981 (I can't see the second # there, assuming it is a 1). The last number stamped on the plate, first two are the year it was made. $3k is giving it away.
The numbers 130 and 260 designate BTUs it is capable of, you have the beast there.

Mine is an '81.

Townsend · Post by **Townsend** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 9:29 am

Looks nice!

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 12:46 pm

I know very little about AA's, but I don't get how it could be a 260k boiler with the nameplate showing SVRC = 192. I thought SVRC was always at least input btu/1000.

Mike

Post by **Rob R.** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 1:53 pm

I always look at the fire door.

round = 130, oval = 260.

can't make it out from the pictures.

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 2:02 pm

192 lbs. of water to steam per hour ~= 186,300 BTUH if I did this correctly. Seems to be the boilers output when used in a steam application. Would output correlate more directly to safety valve relief capacity than input?

I don't know about the 260, but if it is considered to be double the 130 in every way, and the 130 (per the 1949 Bureau Of Mines Report) has an actual input of 116,000 BTUH and an efficiency at full rated capacity of ~80.5%, then:

116,000 x 2 = 232,000 BTUH input, and 186,300/232,000 = 80.3% efficiency for the AA-260

Kendallt09 · Post by **Kendallt09** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 2:08 pm

Definitely an oval door

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 4:33 pm

Larry,

I haven't done a formal study, but basically all of the code doc's I've seen contain a statement equivalent to this:

"The required steam relieving capacity in lb/hr of the safety relief valves on a high-temperature water boiler shall be determined by dividing the maximum output in Btu/hr at the boiler nozzle obtained by the firing of any fuel for which the unit is designed, by 1000."

Some override (and add to) that based on other considerations, but the basic computation involves the heat released inside the boiler (i.e., boiler input), and in no event can the input btu/1000 be greater than SVRC. So if that is a "260", the SVRC indicates the actual heat released from the coal it burns is not greater than 192k btu/hr.

Mike

lsayre · Post by **lsayre** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 4:45 pm

Pacowy wrote:Larry,

I haven't done a formal study, but basically all of the code doc's I've seen contain a statement equivalent to this:

"The required steam relieving capacity in lb/hr of the safety relief valves on a high-temperature water boiler shall be determined by dividing the maximum output in Btu/hr at the boiler nozzle obtained by the firing of any fuel for which the unit is designed, by 1000."

Some override (and add to) that based on other considerations, but the basic computation involves the heat released inside the boiler (i.e., boiler input), and in no event can the input btu/1000 be greater than SVRC. So if that is a "260", the SVRC indicates the actual heat released from the coal it burns is not greater than 192k btu/hr.

Mike

I can't see how a boiler can output more than its capable of. If it is only capable of output at the level of 186,300 BTUH, then it only needs to have a relief valve sized to that capacity, or in other words, to the relief valve and relief pipe diameter legally required for a boiler rated at 192 lbs. of water to steam per hour. You mention output, and not input, in your (code from memory) statement which I've quoted above, so I believe we are saying the same thing. The only difference I can see is that you are referencing output when you site code, but speaking of input as soon as you depart from siting the code.

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 7:30 pm

Larry,

The quote was from NY; the "memory" is of having seen the same computation referenced in other codes.

Maybe the key word is "safety". Apparently in the interests of safety the relieving capacity is set based on the energy known to be released inside the boiler rather than on any assumptions or testing regarding the efficiency of the boiler in converting input to output. My point was based on the way SVRC is actually used and applied in practice.

Mike

Kendallt09 · Post by **Kendallt09** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 9:20 pm

Another way of looking at it when sizing relief valves you measure them by 1 and a half times the MAXIMUM WORKING value so if your doing the math at 186300 times 1.5 makes it 275000(approximately)

Just so you realize I am a propane tech so I am just taking a stab with what I know of ASME and NFPA codes which may be different in the steam business.

Pacowy · Post by **Pacowy** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 10:52 pm

I agree that it is prudent and safe for the relief valve to be sized above the max. working level, and that is the point I have been trying to make. The 192 lb. (which Larry equates to 186k btu) is the relief valve requirement, which is above the max. working level at which the boiler water actually absorbs heat, because the requirement is computed from boiler input BTU's rather than output btu's. If you know the SVRC, and know that it has been computed from input btu's, you can estimate output BTU's by multiplying the BTU's implicit in SVRC (it makes little practical difference if you use Larry's 186k number or my 192k number) by the boiler's output/input efficiency. If you use the 0.805 value cited previously, that would put gross boiler output in the range of 150-155k btu/hr.

I can see in the literature that AA claims 260k btu/hr output for the 260. Based on the SVRC value, I don't see how even the input could be that high, let alone the output after application of an efficiency factor. I'm not trying to mess on AA, but I'm having trouble reconciling these numbers.

Mike

Scottscoaled · Post by **Scottscoaled** » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 11:04 pm

What the Heck!!!!!!! The guy is trying to sell his AA260! What are you doing?

Selling AA 260M

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