Outside Combustion Air?

 
titleist1
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Post by titleist1 » Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 12:08 pm

Just thought I'd mention from info on the first post that the OP is talking about two 65cfm combustion fans with baffle plates on them closed about 60%. I think his intake air requirements would be served by a separate 3" or 4" pipe to the fan intake for each stoker. Am I off base there? I am sorta scratching my head over the need for much larger rectangular intakes for his application. But I am not a HVAC engineer and could be wrong in believing this type set up has been adequate for my 65cfm combustion fan on my stoker. Similarly the baffle on my combustion fan is more than 50% closed.

Does LL or any other coal stoker mfg's offer any guidance on outside air kits or supply them as an option for their stokers like some pellet stove mfg's?

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 12:21 pm

With my prior post I was not advocating any design criteria what soever, but only clearing up what may of been misleading information...sorry if it was taken any other way than a clearing up.

 
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Post by Olllotj » Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 1:30 pm

I hate to say that we are trying to fix a problem that's not there yet! :D :D

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 1:34 pm

Olllotj wrote:I hate to say that we are trying to fix a problem that's not there yet! :D :D
But if his house does prove to be too tight and that leads to combustion problems (or worse), wouldn't it make sense to have a plan B that is well researched and thought out in advance?

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 4:57 pm

Put 2- 4" holes in the new wall to be filled with dryer vents installed backwards. The dryer vents will open as needed when additional air is called for. Make sure to have the holes slope downward just a little so water can't run into your basement & that will cause the flap to close better since it will be closing downhill more so than if it is installed perfectly level.Install heavy screen on the outside to keep unwanted visitors out. An open window may provide air but will also provide air in when not needed.


 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 6:19 pm

Olllotj wrote:I hate to say that we are trying to fix a problem that's not there yet! :D :D
That is one way of looking at it...but I'm pretty sure that boiler has to get it's air from somewhere.

The OP is asking if it may be the better option to make allowances since/while provisions are easy to add during the building stage.

A planned controlled combustion air entry point has plenty of advantages over the just don't worry about it till later concept. :)

Different strokes fer different folks. ;)

 
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Post by coalkirk » Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 9:07 pm

He says its an old farm house so I don't think "too tight" is going to be a problem. But the reality is your house doesn't like a vacuum. Run any combustion appliance and you are exhausting air out of the house. Air is gonna come in to fill the void. The only question is are you going to manage where that air comes in or just let it get sucked in where ever it finds a path. Managing where it comes in along with efforts to tighten the home is a step in the right direction.

 
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Post by swyman » Mon. Oct. 24, 2016 11:28 pm

All you guys are correct, this is premature, I have a lot of things going through my head on how to set this up as you all can probably tell my all the new topics I have been throwing on all the different boards. There is a lot of knowledge on here and many of you have done or come across some of the things I have been thinking about. And my house.....I think I could blow a candle out on the West walls electric outlets when we get that nasty West wind. My theory is I will take care of that since the addition is going on the West wall and goes almost the width of the house so we will be able to properly seal it up while the siding is off...I hope! Even when this gets buttoned up I know it will still not be close to a new house, I am just trying to keep the cold air infiltration to a minimum. I like the dryer vent idea, seems like that would be quick and simple vs hard piping pvc.

 
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Post by blrman07 » Tue. Oct. 25, 2016 6:56 am

Remember that the vent sizes that were mathamaticianly figured out are based on ZERO air coming in from any other source. If this was a super tight, no carbon bootprint, hermeticaly sealed house, then yes you would need the calculated sized ducting.

No existing farm house is going to be so tight that you need to supply 100% ducted in combustion air.

 
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Post by GaryScanlon » Thu. Nov. 03, 2016 8:50 am

If a combustion air duct is properly installed, it will help prevent the house from getting depressurized. If you still have confusion, it would be best to consult an expert like from heating installation NJ as they would be able to guide you properly and their suggestions would also bring peace of mind.


 
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Post by Lightning » Thu. Nov. 03, 2016 5:27 pm

blrman07 wrote:Remember that the vent sizes that were mathamaticianly figured out are based on ZERO air coming in from any other source. If this was a super tight, no carbon bootprint, hermeticaly sealed house, then yes you would need the calculated sized ducting.

No existing farm house is going to be so tight that you need to supply 100% ducted in combustion air.
Just to expand on what the Rev said,
Air infiltration is normally much bigger than you realize. In a "normal home" the air can turn over once to several times PER HOUR. That's a huge volume of air. A complete turn over is the whole volume of air exchanged in your house. Air infiltration usually comes in at the lower level of the home and goes out at the upper level because of stack effect. A stove appliance is just another place for the infiltrating air to exit. Most applications don't need a dedicated combustion outside air source because of "normal" air infiltration.

 
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McGiever
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Post by McGiever » Thu. Nov. 03, 2016 10:35 pm

Everyone is hung up whether this needs to be added or not...it is easy to see it is not needed with the leaks and all... come on...sheesh. :roll:

However, Why have the curtains fluttering next to you while sitting on the couch when the combustion air can/could be made to come in at a planned location a few feet from the combustion fan and no one is none the less uncomfortable upstairs. :wtf:

 
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Post by warminmn » Thu. Nov. 03, 2016 10:49 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Put 2- 4" holes in the new wall to be filled with dryer vents installed backwards. The dryer vents will open as needed when additional air is called for. Make sure to have the holes slope downward just a little so water can't run into your basement & that will cause the flap to close better since it will be closing downhill more so than if it is installed perfectly level.Install heavy screen on the outside to keep unwanted visitors out. An open window may provide air but will also provide air in when not needed.
Thats about as simple as it could get. I like it.

 
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Post by blrman07 » Fri. Nov. 04, 2016 6:38 am

Ok guys....I looked up ASHRAE's standard for whole house air exchange rates. This is what happens when you wake up too early and have to stay quiet. :mad:

From ASHRAE standards for whole house air exchange the whole-house rate in 62-2001 is set at 0.35 air changes per hour, but no less
than 15 cfm/person (7.5 l/s/person).

So you need at least .35 total air changes every hour for a two bedroom house. That number goes up for every additional bedroom and every person added to the equation.

For mindnumbing details got to https://buildings.lbl.gov/sites/all/files/ashraes_first_residential_ventilation_standard.pdf :shock:

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