Hot Water Plumbing Issue Help

 
RT Hauling
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Post by RT Hauling » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 7:11 am

Even if you are only using electric the valves blow off pressure. Seems the newer valves are more sensitive, changed mine a couple times. Ran it into a sump pump after one stayed open for too long. Lots of water came out during that time. Even turned down the heat on the tank. The only thing that helped was closing the valve some to the input of the tank to lower the pressure going in.


 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 8:12 am

If you have teenagers tell them to conserve the hot water. :lol: Funny story, a friend of my Brother's kid was staying the night and was taking a shower. My Brother has on demand coil on his boiler, about half hour later my Brother goes and asks him what he's doing. The kid says to him at home I take a shower until the water gets cold....

The best thing about a thermosiphon is you generally don't need to do anything but plumb it. Sans some solution that will allow for better natural circulation within the tank keep it simple, I think some finned tubing to bleed off some heat is easiest and most logical solution.

 
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hotblast1357
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Post by hotblast1357 » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 8:15 am

how often do you use domestic hot water? I would simply start using it more, or install something to bleed off the heat, baseboard or something... installing a pump is NOT going to fix this issue, it is just going to make the tanks hotter faster, then you will still be blowing off water.

 
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Richard S.
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Post by Richard S. » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 8:19 am

hotblast1357 wrote:installing a pump is NOT going to fix this issue, it is just going to make the tanks hotter faster,
The coils are very short in these applications and it may take hours to heat a 40 gallon tank, using a slow circulating pump should work especially if you have two tanks to work with. The only reason I would disagree with it is you are complicating something that has pretty easy fix if you can bleed some of the heat off with some radiation.

 
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Post by Waswood » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 8:37 am

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Yes both tanks are tied at bottom going to bottom of coil to the stove and both are tied togeather at the top but the stove goes to the closest tank .i tried to drawl it and will post the pic if this works . I was thinking a pump would help with evening out the temp in both tanks but wasn't sure if it would stop the blow off.

 
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Post by Waswood » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 8:44 am

It's a family of 5 (2 teenagers and a 6yr old) we use hot water but evidently not enough when the temps drop and the stove is running harder. When the stove is running there's usually approx 50 deg difference from top pipe out of stove to the bottom. When the stove is about out the temps balance out which tells me the thermo siph is working. I hope the pick is understandable due to my drawling capabilities .

 
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Post by pintoplumber » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 9:57 am

I don't think the tank on the left is going to get as hot from thermosyphoning unless you remove the dip tube on the cold side. I can see the tank on the right getting too hot. Dennis


 
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Post by Waswood » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 10:19 am

pintoplumber wrote:I don't think the tank on the left is going to get as hot from thermosyphoning unless you remove the dip tube on the cold side. I can see the tank on the right getting too hot. Dennis
Great point .I never thought about the dip tube. I guess the hot water would have a hard time getting to the bottom of the tube by thermo siph.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 12:55 pm

Funny how this works... "I have too much hot water" :lol:

The tank next to the stove doesn't have fitting on the side where the relief valve might go? Appears the other one does? What if you switched the tanks around and put the hot side of the coil into that lower fitting, at least it will be going into the tank a little lower and get distributed better.

Something else to consider is putting a swing check on the bottom pipe connecting both tanks so it can only flow from left tank to the right tank. That way you will insure the hottest water in the right tank is going into the left tank when you are drawing off it.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 1:06 pm

'reverse return' will balance the thermo syphon loop...
equal length piping to both tanks with a first in last out logic for the water flow...
first tank is taking more of the load than the second...
balance the load with proper piping or mechanically correct with low speed pump...

 
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Post by Lightning » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 1:19 pm

It boggles me that a family that big can't use enough hot water to keep the temperature of the tanks in check. Is the coil IN the fire or what? lol Could we get a picture of that please??

I have one 21 inch coil (total pipe length in the stove is about 48 inches when you include the bend) preheating one 40 gallon tank (it's thermo syphon- no pump) and I only have a problem with it getting too warm when it's below zero outside and I'm burning 80+ pounds of coal per day. Disregard the coil on the left side, it keeps my hot tub warm all winter.

EDIT - Speaking of dip tubes, it's really important how you have it plumbed to the tanks to get the dip tubes to help with the proper stratification thru the whole tank as the water naturally slugs along thru the thermo syphon.

For example, you want the cold water coming in to be plumbed to the dip tube inlet, and the warm water going out plumbed to the other so the warm water accumulates at the top of the tank. This way the the dip tube leaves the warm water at the top of the tank alone (so it can be used first) and shoots the cold water to the bottom of the tank where the coil picks it up.

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Post by bobok » Sun. Oct. 30, 2016 8:24 pm

I don't see two tanks working with thermo siphon unless as cape coaler says equal length piping and NO dip tubes. If dip tubes are used then a pump will have to be used also. BoboK

 
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Post by Waswood » Mon. Oct. 31, 2016 5:26 am

Thanks all for the advise . After reading the replies it makes me wonder how it has worked as well as it has :D . I guess it's really only been pre heating the water in the 1st tank . I wonder if I remove that dip tube in the 2nd tank will it cause an issue in the off Season when I turn the elect back on? Elect only goes to the 2nd tank and I shut the cold valve off on the bottom of tank to stop it from trying to heat both tanks.

 
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Post by McGiever » Mon. Oct. 31, 2016 10:31 am

Waswood wrote:Thanks all for the advise . After reading the replies it makes me wonder how it has worked as well as it has :D . I guess it's really only been pre heating the water in the 1st tank . I wonder if I remove that dip tube in the 2nd tank will it cause an issue in the off Season when I turn the elect back on? Elect only goes to the 2nd tank and I shut the cold valve off on the bottom of tank to stop it from trying to heat both tanks.
Dip tube definitlly needed with electric in the off season.

If you like plumbing work, you have a couple chocies, you may leave dip tube if you raise a top located TPR with short nipple and a added tee for your thermosyphion...or remove dip tube and then move cold inlet to bottom drain by adding the nipple plus tee there. :)
Oh, recommend 3/4" min. pipe and where thermosyphion... always use 2-45 degee spaced apart fittings to instead make your 90 degree turns. You want everything big dia. uphill and gradually turned. ;)

 
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Post by Waswood » Mon. Oct. 31, 2016 8:35 pm

I guess my best option is to add a pump . I don't want to remove and add the diptube depending on the season. Also I don't want to re plumb with even pipe length . I guess I will add a pump , Should it go at bottom between 1st and 2nd tank or is there a better place? Thank for the help .


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