My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: cntbill On: Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:40 am

Posting this in the Using Bituminous Coal section because I intend to use bit exclusivly this stove.

For the last few weeks been trying to figure what stove to use to burn the 6 tons of bit I got, I was thinking of using a EMF WCB but decided against it because it would require the setup of going to a boiler and figured that would be just a little too much time and work not knowing how well it would burn the bit coal. So with reading post after post it seems that the Warm Morning was the way to go andI decided to look for a Warm Morning 400 and came across this one. To me the over all condition seems to be fair and a lot better then some.

So I have a few questions along with some photos to get some feedback on my comments.

Bricks: some cracks but all seem to be usable. Something appears to be melted on the front bricks...

Round grate: two cracks, the only way I could somewhat fix them is with brazing, to have it welded would probable cost as much as a replacement. Also the fork grate will fall out of place because the one support on the round grate is on the side with the cracks is spread out. So guess I should replace at least the round grate.

Fork grate: I am guessing that there is some kind of pin maybe brass, that goes through the round grate holding the fork grate up in place.

Flue: not using the cast elbow and thinking of going straight out the back with an MPD first then the Baro, seems to be the recommend setup according to the manual.

Also a couple of other questions, what's the rectangular cutout on the back for? And what does the manual mean "Heats up to 6 rooms" ? Like what size are these rooms? :?

So thoughts, comments?

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Bedspread for brick protection while transporting
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proposed flue connections... yes baro needs to be turned
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cntbill
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130 Rebuild Project
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Gem 22 by Floyd, Wells Co.
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Buck - Nut and Stove
Other Heating: Fireplace


Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: warminmn On: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:37 am

6 rooms is just how they used to advertise stoves, by how many rooms they would heat. It only means more BTU than a 5 room heater :lol:

I think the rectangular hole might be for a blower but not positive.

The cracked grate would have to be fixed or replaced unless you want to wake up on the coldest day of the year with the grate laying in the ash pan. There are places that sell them, not cheap, but your gonna need one. Possibly one of the many stove restorer shops would have one, or try a wanted ad on this site. Someone may have one.
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Frankenstove
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite
Other Heating: wood

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: CoalHeat On: Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:42 am

Beautiful stove, I have always liked Warm Mornings. Must be the look of the cabinet.
CoalHeat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:50 pm

the rectangle hole is where there used to be an alcove box and a can to put water in daily for humidifying. doubt if there are any replacements for those but you may find one on another beater stove or ebay.

the round hole in back is for the optional fan, you may still find those new or on ebay.

the stuff on the bricks is just coal slag. you can get it off with a masonry wheel on an angle grinder. be VERY careful to keep the wheel flat against the brick face and move up and down more or less shaving it off. you want to be sure not to start cutting into the surface of the brick and you don't really need it all off, just the real high parts.

i'd go ahead on the round grate with the handle and be ready to rock.

steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: cntbill On: Tue Nov 01, 2016 10:31 pm

warminmn wrote:6 rooms is just how they used to advertise stoves, by how many rooms they would heat. It only means more BTU than a 5 room heater


Well then perfect for my house, 5 rooms and a basement = 6 :doh:

Wood'nCoal wrote:Beautiful stove, I have always liked Warm Mornings. Must be the look of the cabinet.


Got to be the style with that shiny brown color where it's lighter and darker looking... but yea needs to be cleaned up a bit.

KingCoal wrote:the rectangle hole is where there used to be an alcove box and a can to put water in daily for humidifying


Now that you mention it I remember reading something about that and now it makes sense why there is surface rust in that area.

Thanks for the links on the grate and handle, guess I'm going to break down and get them. Just a little leery spending the money if my bricks weren't going to fly.

So a masonry grinding wheel? Guess I give it a shot but it's going to be real tough seeing what I'm doing on those front bricks.
cntbill
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130 Rebuild Project
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Gem 22 by Floyd, Wells Co.
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Buck - Nut and Stove
Other Heating: Fireplace

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: cntbill On: Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:02 am

Ok, got another question on this regarding the "automatic draft regulator". Been burning a little bit and the draft regulator doesn't seem like it is doing its job. When it is burning I move the regulator knob up or down and the damper don't seem to open, The rod that connects to the damper is spring loaded on the bottom and top, through the side door I can move the rod with my hand and the damper opens and closes no problems, spring on the bottom of the rod makes it close, however the spring on the top that the knob lever moves with the lever but the rod don't move. There is a slot in the top spring for the rod and the rod has a tab at 90 degrees but the rod just slide through the spring. I'm thinking that the tab is supposed to be attached to the spring via spot weld, or maybe the spring is just wore out ??
cntbill
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130 Rebuild Project
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Gem 22 by Floyd, Wells Co.
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Buck - Nut and Stove
Other Heating: Fireplace

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: cntbill On: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:46 am

Ordered a grate and shaker handle that should arrive Monday, but in the mean time I've been burning Anthracite mainly because I did't want to take the chance of my wire job holding the fork grate coming apart from when I break up the fused Bit and also wanting to get a handle on how the stove works. The Anthracite I have used has been a mixture of nut and stove, and straight pea, all has burned really well.

But I really would like to get the Automatic Draft Control to work. At the moment I have the MPD installed along with the manometer (mano after mpd), I didn't use the Baro because I wanted to see what kind of draft I would get first and thinking the Auto Draft Control would work. With Bit I was getting a high reading ranging from .06-.10 but I attribute that to my inexperienced with Bit and the stove. Now with a little more experience with the draft settings, the MPD and using Anthracite I'm able to run as low as .04 but average is .05-.06. However draft is only opened very little as it's still kind of warm outside and having to use windowstats.

So once after the grate arrives and I let the stove go out to change the grate I would like to see if I can get the Auto draft control to work. I can see the spring and rod through the top of the stove but how the heck can I get to it?? Iv'e read where others have taken the panels off for various reasons, but which panel does one take off first? When I first picked this stove up I was thinking of taking off a couple of panels to inspect the stove but gave up on that as I couldn't get my hand with screw driver at the screws, at least from the front or sides. I've been search for a "take apart" but no luck there. So does anyone know the secret which panel to start with and how to access the screws?

Below is a couple photos of the top spring where you can see that the tab on the rod is not connected.

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Looking down from the top
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cntbill
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130 Rebuild Project
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Gem 22 by Floyd, Wells Co.
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Buck - Nut and Stove
Other Heating: Fireplace

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: warminmn On: Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:32 am

I do not have any experience with your specific draft control but Ive had 2 older stoves with spring systems and neither worked right and one of them would get stuck open. The stove I use now I removed the spring and use coins to regulate the air, dime for lowest setting, a penny for more air, a quarter for the most. I'm not sure if you can rig up anything similar, but if you cant get it to work right perhaps this will give you ideas. This is a pic of what I did. It originally had a box around it which I removed. You can see the coin to hold it open a crack. I keep a weight on the lid but took it off for the pic.

There is no law saying you have to use what came with your stove. You can attach any type of draft you want down under the grate and it will work. You could even drill holes there and have a slide door to open and close it. You will likely find the right amount of air and leave it in that one spot. If you end out going that route and have a hard time controlling the fire you may need a barometric damper but try it without first.
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warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin, Frankenstove
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite
Other Heating: wood


Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:52 am

Does the spring move on it's own at all? It appears that the tab on the end of the spring should move up when cold, and down as the stove gets hot. If that's the case, then it appears that it needs adjusted, that adjustment point would be on the other end of the rod.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: cntbill On: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:11 am

warminmn wrote:IThe stove I use now I removed the spring and use coins to regulate the air, dime for lowest setting, a penny for more air, a quarter for the most. I'm not sure if you can rig up anything similar, but if you cant get it to work right perhaps this will give you ideas. This is a pic of what I did. It originally had a box around it which I removed. You can see the coin to hold it open a crack. I keep a weight on the lid but took it off for the pic.

There is no law saying you have to use what came with your stove. You can attach any type of draft you want down under the grate and it will work. You could even drill holes there and have a slide door to open and close it. You will likely find the right amount of air and leave it in that one spot. If you end out going that route and have a hard time controlling the fire you may need a barometric damper but try it without first.


So the larger the coin the more is cost to run... makes sense and I may end up doing some similar.

SWPaDon wrote:Does the spring move on it's own at all? It appears that the tab on the end of the spring should move up when cold, and down as the stove gets hot. If that's the case, then it appears that it needs adjusted, that adjustment point would be on the other end of the rod.


Well since the stove was on low I managed to remove the draft control regulator assembly, came out quite easy, just the two screws and a slight twist to unlatch it from the control rod and out... just couldn't keep my hand in there too long as it's still a bit hot ;) Inspecting on how it works I figured that the rod is NoT supposed to be attached to the spring, its designed to float in the slot. The spring is not broken and has tension but I'm thinking maybe it's just wore out. Or maybe a little far fetched I think it may have be installed backwards/upside down by a previous owner. I'll post some photos soon.
cntbill
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130 Rebuild Project
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Gem 22 by Floyd, Wells Co.
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Buck - Nut and Stove
Other Heating: Fireplace

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:25 am

Yes, I believe the rod would be designed to float in the spring. I'm curious if the spring is operational at all ( that would require a heat/cool cycle to determine) and if the rod was adjusted correctly. Was the rod hooked solid to the draft door, or was there an adjustment?
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: cntbill On: Sat Nov 12, 2016 3:58 am

The most important thing I learned during this exercise that this should be done when there is NO fire in the stove :oops: as making the adjustments I kept opening and closing that draft and all that did was make it hotter...

SWPaDon wrote:Yes, I believe the rod would be designed to float in the spring. I'm curious if the spring is operational at all ( that would require a heat/cool cycle to determine) and if the rod was adjusted correctly. Was the rod hooked solid to the draft door, or was there an adjustment?


The spring assembly did work to check I put it in the freezer for a short time and it seemed to move well.

What I found is that the spring is attached to a tube that runs through it. The adjustment lever/rod goes through that tube and there is a nut on the other end of the adjustment lever so when you loosen the nut the spring moves freely. So to adjust the spring all you need to do is loosen the nut and then move the spring in relationship to the adjustment lever and then just tighten it up.. Easy enough to do just have to set the adjustment lever in low and twist the spring to just before the damper opens and tighten it. The only thing when tightening the nut the spring wants to move and with a hot stove it's a little bit of a pain, literally, knuckles keep hitting the hot parts of the stove. grrrrrrr There is only one spring the bottom damper is counter balance.

Below is a few photos of the spring, Adjustment lever assembly, bottom damper, etc..

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Adjustment lever was a little bent.
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Bottom Damper closed
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Bottom Damper Opened
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cntbill
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130 Rebuild Project
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A70/A90
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Radiant Gem 22 by Floyd, Wells Co.
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Buck - Nut and Stove
Other Heating: Fireplace

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sat Nov 12, 2016 7:10 am

great work, i'll bet it works now and you're going to like it. this type of auto damper is really nice way to run stoves, simplifies the need of other controls.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: corey On: Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:27 am

Good work those big metal tstats are great.
corey
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: USS Ashley coal stove
Coal Size/Type: Eastern KY bituminous

Re: My Warm Morning Project - Thoughts?

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sat Nov 12, 2016 11:07 am

Glad to hear the spring is operational. As KingCoal said, you are going to love the automatic draft control.
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous
Other Heating: Oil furnace