I'm looking for a flame sensor for my Keystoker KA-6 boiler. It needs to survive the interior environment, or have a method to sense (through a hole in the door?)
Ideally, one that is proportional to detect small glowing coals vs medium flame vs high flame, and survive full flame, from the door or nearby area. Obviously, it will not be directly "in" the flame
I've seen the Arduino flame detectors, but unsure if they are proportional, and not sure how to rig through the door?
I thought of a glass well (think sightglass), but not sure if the IR of anthracite coal fire will be restricted by the glass?
Maybe someone has something in mind, or a (cheap) part from an existing boiler that I can order?
I think I'm looking at IR-S technology, which is more towards the IR end, rather than the UV of the oil boilers.
A ready-made probe would be nice
Flame Sensor?
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
- Pauliewog
- Member
- Posts: 1824
- Joined: Mon. Dec. 02, 2013 12:15 am
- Location: Pittston, Pennsylvania
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
- Baseburners & Antiques: Fame Rosemont #20, Home Stove Works #25, Glenwood #6, Happy Thought Oak, Merry Bride #214, Sunnyside, Worlds Argand #114, New Golden Sun , & About 30 others.
- Coal Size/Type: Stove, Chesnut, Pea, Rice / Anthracite
I'm curious about your flame detection project, and the reasons for choosing IR over UV .
Curious minds need to know.
Paulie
Curious minds need to know.
Paulie
- carlherrnstein
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- Location: Clarksburg, ohio
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: combustioneer model 77B
- Coal Size/Type: pea stoker/Ohio bituminous
That is a tall order.... could you use a gas thermocouple. Its voltage output will increase as it gets hotter. There built to stand heat, are cheap and most importantly of all can be found in many stores.
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
I want to detect my coal firePauliewog wrote:I'm curious about your flame detection project, and the reasons for choosing IR over UV .
Curious minds need to know.
Paulie
Here's a graphic for the UV vs IR
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
I was trying to go visual, not thermocouple. I can grab those all over.carlherrnstein wrote:That is a tall order.... could you use a gas thermocouple. Its voltage output will increase as it gets hotter. There built to stand heat, are cheap and most importantly of all can be found in many stores.
The problem with IR is the "normal" way to protect a sensor is through a glass window. But not with IR
Maybe there is a type of glass or a plastic that will withstand the heat? The flame sensors I have found are mostly enclosed in plastic "lenses" Might not do well with the heat of the fire.
I can do temperature based measurements, but I'd rather be visual.
I might be able to do a fiber optic routing, but then the detection will be farther away, as the fiber optic will have to be away and protected- yet disposable if it melts
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
Sorry, I think my previous reply was a bit short. You asked about the project? I'm looking to keep an eye on the size of the idle flame and maybe run a dynamic timer to cycle the stoker when not calling for heat.Pauliewog wrote:I'm curious about your flame detection project, and the reasons for choosing IR over UV .
Curious minds need to know.
Paulie
Not very ambitious, but I have other plans, too
- Pauliewog
- Member
- Posts: 1824
- Joined: Mon. Dec. 02, 2013 12:15 am
- Location: Pittston, Pennsylvania
- Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska 140 Dual Paddle Feed
- Baseburners & Antiques: Fame Rosemont #20, Home Stove Works #25, Glenwood #6, Happy Thought Oak, Merry Bride #214, Sunnyside, Worlds Argand #114, New Golden Sun , & About 30 others.
- Coal Size/Type: Stove, Chesnut, Pea, Rice / Anthracite
I would think the greatest obstacle you would encounter using IR detection would be keeping the sight glass free of fly ash.
I'm familiar with using flame rods, UV flame detectors, and thermocouples for flame detection and temperature control, but when it comes to IR, my knowledge is limited other than using a portable IR temperature gun,
The thermocouple in our burn off oven gives a visual digital display on a Honeywell temperature controller and throttles the gas valve according to our predetermined set points.
Is there an advantage of using IR? I know that little temperature controller has quite a number of options built in that I never had occasion to use.
Paulie
I'm familiar with using flame rods, UV flame detectors, and thermocouples for flame detection and temperature control, but when it comes to IR, my knowledge is limited other than using a portable IR temperature gun,
The thermocouple in our burn off oven gives a visual digital display on a Honeywell temperature controller and throttles the gas valve according to our predetermined set points.
Is there an advantage of using IR? I know that little temperature controller has quite a number of options built in that I never had occasion to use.
Paulie
- CoalisCoolxWarm
- Member
- Posts: 2323
- Joined: Wed. Jan. 19, 2011 11:41 am
- Location: Western PA
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
- Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
- Other Heating: Oil Boiler
IR doesn't go through glass, but near IR (visible) does better than IR. I worked with it a lot in a previous lifePauliewog wrote:I would think the greatest obstacle you would encounter using IR detection would be keeping the sight glass free of fly ash.
I'm familiar with using flame rods, UV flame detectors, and thermocouples for flame detection and temperature control, but when it comes to IR, my knowledge is limited other than using a portable IR temperature gun,
The thermocouple in our burn off oven gives a visual digital display on a Honeywell temperature controller and throttles the gas valve according to our predetermined set points.
Is there an advantage of using IR? I know that little temperature controller has quite a number of options built in that I never had occasion to use.
Paulie
If I use visible light, it is subject to light pollution from opening doors, gasket gaps, etc. Might not have a choice.
Coal does UV, which might be less light pollution in an indoor environment, except for things like cheap fluorescent tubes.
Try for the "best case" then work with the best you can get for the effort/$