Non-coded boilers in residential use

Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: stoker-man On: Fri May 09, 2008 4:41 pm

I was called into the office today to see the Pennsylvania L & I inspector. The people in the office had already cranked him up, so he was feisty when I saw him.

He had just shut down a brand new Keystoker boiler in a commercial business because it wasn't "coded". It was an elderly couple who just paid to have it installed and they had to "close the doors" because they can't afford to have another boiler put in. Bad news for the company, but shame on the plumber who should have known better in the first place. Where were his ethics? The inspector actually felt bad for the couple because the man had just gotten out of the hospital.

You cannot have a non-coded boiler in any business in PA since about 1929. If there is a little sign out in the front yard that says "Vito's pizza oven repair" or "Butch's lawnmower service", you are permitting the state inspector to come on your property and inquire about a boiler in your home or business; either one. If there's a sign outside, the inspector can ask for proof of a coded boiler inside.

Since he was already cranked up, he asked me if I knew that for the last few years, all boilers in businesses or NEW boilers in residences must be coded. It doesn't matter anymore whether business is conducted inside a residence. There is one loophole and that is: if there is no sign outside a residence, the state cannot come inside. That job is left up to local code officials, which can inspect the boiler for coding. And I hate when I hear this, because it's like getting kicked when you're down, but if something pressure related happens to a non-coded boiler, when you're supposed to have a coded boiler, the insurance company will let you hang.

Don't shoot me; I'm just the messenger. The state inspector spent an hour going over this stuff with me.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri May 09, 2008 4:48 pm

When you say "coded" do you mean ASME, or any code will do. Here in Maine a residence needs a UL type decal, they don't care what company, as long as some independant company has given it the OK. I think most businesses are OK with that type of approval, but schools, state buildings, they need ASME. I know we used to install oil boilers in businesses that were not ASME.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: stoker-man On: Fri May 09, 2008 6:33 pm

Coded means ASME, but there is also some other rating, but I forgot what it was.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri May 09, 2008 8:46 pm

stoker-man wrote:....all boilers in businesses or NEW boilers in residences must be coded.


Could you clarify that, do you mean new boilers in all residence's or just those also being used for a business. What if it was small apartment building? It's pretty common in my area to turn these larger homes into 3 or 4 separate units.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: Motorbike On: Fri May 09, 2008 9:11 pm

How about an idea of what Boilers are coded?
Motorbike
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman VF3000

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: gregsmit On: Fri May 09, 2008 10:44 pm

Based on my recent research:

ASME code:
All Axeman-A
AHS for an extra $2000
EFM (not sure if it's an extra cost option)

Not ASME:
Keystoker

Not sure:
Harmon VF3000

Note that MA just started requiring ASME cert for all residential solid fuel boilers. NH only requires ASME cert for commercial properties.

-Greg
gregsmit
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA6 direct vent

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri May 09, 2008 10:49 pm

Freddy wrote:When you say "coded" do you mean ASME, or any code will do. Here in Maine a residence needs a UL type decal, they don't care what company, as long as some independant company has given it the OK. I think most businesses are OK with that type of approval, but schools, state buildings, they need ASME. I know we used to install oil boilers in businesses that were not ASME.


Almost all commercial boilers need to be H stamped for insurance reasons, no stamp, no insurance.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: Yanche On: Fri May 09, 2008 11:10 pm

stoker-man wrote:I was called into the office today to see the Pennsylvania L & I inspector. ...SNIP ...

Since he was already cranked up, he asked me if I knew that for the last few years, all boilers in businesses or NEW boilers in residences must be coded. It doesn't matter anymore whether business is conducted inside a residence. There is one loophole and that is: if there is no sign outside a residence, the state cannot come inside. That job is left up to local code officials, which can inspect the boiler for coding. And I hate when I hear this, because it's like getting kicked when you're down, but if something pressure related happens to a non-coded boiler, when you're supposed to have a coded boiler, the insurance company will let you hang.

Don't shoot me; I'm just the messenger. The state inspector spent an hour going over this stuff with me.
This may or not be correct depending on what the term "coded" means.

We need to understand some terms. Coded, stamped, tagged, inspected and approved are many times used interchangeably. They mean different things. PA state law requires the "International Mechanical Code" published by the International Code Council to be followed. This code in turn requires boilers to be "designed and constructed in accordance with the requirements of ASME CSD-1 and as applicable, the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code, Sections I or IV". In these aforementioned requirements is the requirement to have a tag attached to the boiler vessel that it meets the requirements. This is called "stamping". In Pennsylvania the state legislature approved a bill that was enacted repealing the "stamping" requirement for boilers in residential use. This just means the tag doesn't have to be there, it still requires the boiler vessel be "designed and constructed in accordance ... etc".

For example the AHS coalgun boiler doesn't have a stamp, but it is designed and constructed in accordance ... etc. So it can be legally used in a PA residence, but not in a commercial building.

The specific inspector either doesn't know the repeal of the stamping requirement or is just throwing his weight around.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: Motorbike On: Fri May 09, 2008 11:33 pm

So why would a company, such as Keystoker, build and sell a boiler if it was not designed to ASME standards?
If they need to be designed, but do not have to be tagged, to ASME how do they produce and sell them in PA? Maybe I am not thinking about it enough but something doesn't make sense.
Motorbike
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman VF3000

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat May 10, 2008 1:01 am

Motorbike wrote:So why would a company, such as Keystoker, build and sell a boiler if it was not designed to ASME standards?


Back up a second, no one has said they don't meet the standards. For starters I'd imagine the reason for not getting them stamped is the cost.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sat May 10, 2008 6:45 am

With the specific questions asked above, I am going to call the inspector on Monday and get clarification. Ask me specific questions and I'll get specific answers. As I posted originally, some of this matter does not involve state inspectors, but it does involve inspectors at the local level because of the adoption of the statewide building codes a few years back. According to the state inspector, the locals may not know what a coded boiler is; they may not care either. Most likely the problem would occur at the insurance level, because they look for everything.

The cost of "coding" is included in the price of an efm boiler and we haven't sold a non-coded boiler for many years.

Yanche, what was that bill? You posted it before.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Non-coded boilers in residential use

PostBy: Yanche On: Sat May 10, 2008 8:54 pm

Stoker-man,

Look over the references I've listed below. That should give you some familiarity of the requirements. Look up the inspector's name in the Registration List. Hopefully he's listed. If not, ask why. The exemption to residential coal boiler stamping is in the last reference. Do a search within the pdf file on "coal" to find it.

Ask what ASME class code stamp is required for commercial business non-residential "low pressure coal boilers"? Ask where there is a set of ASME low pressure vessel specifications documents you can look at. The full set of ASME specs costs over $13K!


The PA Building Code Law
http://www.dli.state.pa.us/landi/cwp/view.asp?a=310&q=210892&landiRNavrad3DFC3

Certified and Registered Code Officials
http://www.dli.state.pa.us/landi/cwp/view.asp?a=310&q=211067

Registration List

http://www.dli.state.pa.us/landi/lib/landi/bois/asb_lead_ucc_updates/regcert.htm



PA Building Code law amendments:

http://www.dli.state.pa.us/landi/lib/landi/ucc/act_45/act_45_amended_thru_act_39_of_2007.pdf
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

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