Indoor/Outdoor Boiler Idea I Have
- oros35
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- Location: Pittsburgh Pa
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Cozeburn OWB burning Bit
- Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
So I have this idea rolling around in my head for the last couple years, and think this next year I'm gonna try to make it happen. Get a regular boiler hand fed that I can primarily use bituminous in and put it in an outbuilding near my house. I've got lots of questions!!!
So the main reason is to get away from using my 1912 parlor stove as my primary source. I'm pushing it way too hard and I'd like to retire it for fun rather than necessity.
I'd also like to get to using primarily bit coal since I'm in prime bit country. And have the ability to use wood to since I have a sawmill I'm working to get running and might have a bunch of slab wood for free.
The reason to not just put the stove in the house is I don't have a good location for it, this house was never meant to have something like this in it. The house is a doublewide on a full basement. The only place I could put it I think would violate some codes with attached garages since the garage is in the basement and the boiler would need to go in that garage. (Please tell me I am wrong and I just might put it in there.!)
I think it needs it's own boiler room and I think it's best to just put it in a shed rather than add a room onto my house.
So Questions:
1) How much shed space do you think I will need to make this work? 10x10 or 10x12 building big enough? Coal supply will still be outside with just a couple days stored inside at a time.
2) Am I crazy for wanting to do this? I've seen a few others do it and say they like it.
3) What would be the best stove to use? I'm liking the AHS multifuels. Either WC40 or WC55. A little pricy but I'll pay for quality.
4) ontop of the cost of the boiler, how much money do I need to set aside for all the other extras, heat exchanger and stuff? I don't know much about it but it doesn't look too hard. My father in-law is a plumber so that's not an issue as long as I give him good directions. I'm thinking the outbuilding will be within 25 feet of the house. The building itself is a separate cost. As long as this sawmill gets going well materials shouldn't cost much, just insulation and hardware.
5) What Am I forgetting that makes this a stupid idea?
So the main reason is to get away from using my 1912 parlor stove as my primary source. I'm pushing it way too hard and I'd like to retire it for fun rather than necessity.
I'd also like to get to using primarily bit coal since I'm in prime bit country. And have the ability to use wood to since I have a sawmill I'm working to get running and might have a bunch of slab wood for free.
The reason to not just put the stove in the house is I don't have a good location for it, this house was never meant to have something like this in it. The house is a doublewide on a full basement. The only place I could put it I think would violate some codes with attached garages since the garage is in the basement and the boiler would need to go in that garage. (Please tell me I am wrong and I just might put it in there.!)
I think it needs it's own boiler room and I think it's best to just put it in a shed rather than add a room onto my house.
So Questions:
1) How much shed space do you think I will need to make this work? 10x10 or 10x12 building big enough? Coal supply will still be outside with just a couple days stored inside at a time.
2) Am I crazy for wanting to do this? I've seen a few others do it and say they like it.
3) What would be the best stove to use? I'm liking the AHS multifuels. Either WC40 or WC55. A little pricy but I'll pay for quality.
4) ontop of the cost of the boiler, how much money do I need to set aside for all the other extras, heat exchanger and stuff? I don't know much about it but it doesn't look too hard. My father in-law is a plumber so that's not an issue as long as I give him good directions. I'm thinking the outbuilding will be within 25 feet of the house. The building itself is a separate cost. As long as this sawmill gets going well materials shouldn't cost much, just insulation and hardware.
5) What Am I forgetting that makes this a stupid idea?
-
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A hand fed Mahoning Water Stove/Forest Eater/coal boiler could or would work.
The problem is complete combustion as you will not have complete combustion
and you will have a lot of smoke when it is shut down as well as when its running
wide open. The water stove will require a lot of tending with a soft coal fire also and you have
to worry about puff backs of flame and smoke through the firebox door when you open it too.
Might be simpler to use an EFM DF520 stoker to burn bituminous as I think they
can burn bituminous coal.
I am unsure if bagged bituminous is available in large quantities either.
Your going to need a tall chimney to disperse the smoke and sulphur fumes though.
The problem is complete combustion as you will not have complete combustion
and you will have a lot of smoke when it is shut down as well as when its running
wide open. The water stove will require a lot of tending with a soft coal fire also and you have
to worry about puff backs of flame and smoke through the firebox door when you open it too.
Might be simpler to use an EFM DF520 stoker to burn bituminous as I think they
can burn bituminous coal.
I am unsure if bagged bituminous is available in large quantities either.
Your going to need a tall chimney to disperse the smoke and sulphur fumes though.
Last edited by lzaharis on Tue. Nov. 15, 2016 2:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- windyhill4.2
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From OWB to EFM520 Installed in Truck Box
If you have not yet read this,consider reading it,maybe some of your un-thought of yet questions will get answered.
A remote location means under ground piping to get the heat from the boiler to the heated area. The most common way to do this is to use a pair of pex 1"-1.5",insulated inside a conduit. This is likely 1 of the most critical steps in this whole system,get the underground pex loop insulated REALLY WELL.
Any heat lost off the boiler & pipes in the shed is heat that is lost,period.If you were to install into your basement,code most places calls for the fire/combustion area to be 18" or more above the floor if any combustible products.. gas jugs,gasoline powered vehicles or equipment,are in the same space. Check your local codes & your home insurance policy for further confirmation .
If you have not yet read this,consider reading it,maybe some of your un-thought of yet questions will get answered.
A remote location means under ground piping to get the heat from the boiler to the heated area. The most common way to do this is to use a pair of pex 1"-1.5",insulated inside a conduit. This is likely 1 of the most critical steps in this whole system,get the underground pex loop insulated REALLY WELL.
Any heat lost off the boiler & pipes in the shed is heat that is lost,period.If you were to install into your basement,code most places calls for the fire/combustion area to be 18" or more above the floor if any combustible products.. gas jugs,gasoline powered vehicles or equipment,are in the same space. Check your local codes & your home insurance policy for further confirmation .
- Dennis
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oros35 wrote:I'd also like to get to using primarily bit coal since I'm in prime bit country. And have the ability to use wood to since I have a sawmill I'm working to get running and might have a bunch of slab wood for free.
I have the WOC55 and it will burn wood,bituminus coal, anthracite coal and fuel oil,and was designed to burn all of them without any problems or modifications. Iv'e never had any problems with it in 8yrs. I'm planning on replacing it with a stoker boiler ,maybe next year.oros35 wrote: 3) What would be the best stove to use? I'm liking the AHS multifuels. Either WC40 or WC55. A little pricy but I'll pay for quality.
- oros35
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- Posts: 476
- Joined: Mon. Feb. 02, 2009 3:47 pm
- Location: Pittsburgh Pa
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Cozeburn OWB burning Bit
- Baseburners & Antiques: 1912 Smith & Anthony Hub Heater #215
Thanks! Any idea where I can find codes to read up on?windyhill4.2 wrote: Check your local codes & your home insurance policy for further confirmation .
- StokerDon
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- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
I don't know what the codes are in your area but from what I have read they usually have a problem with solid fuel heaters in the same space as gas power engines. If your basement is your garage this could be a problem. I am pretty sure you can get around this by walling off a boiler room.
I have done boiler in the outside garage and boiler in the basement. I prefer boiler in the basement.
If you are going with a hand fired boiler I like the idea of an old school Tarm or the EFM WOC or similar boilers over the big outdoor boilers. They are made to last just about forever in a closed hydronic system.
-Don
I have done boiler in the outside garage and boiler in the basement. I prefer boiler in the basement.
If you are going with a hand fired boiler I like the idea of an old school Tarm or the EFM WOC or similar boilers over the big outdoor boilers. They are made to last just about forever in a closed hydronic system.
-Don
- Scottscoaled
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I would look for a Larger New yorker Hand fed. A EFM is a nice option and there always is the Harman line of hand fed boilers that have had good reviews.
- McGiever
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Go crazy and get a bit stoker...oh wait, that will never burn your slab wood.
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- Coal Size/Type: rice
- Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused
The county or town plumbing inspector in your area will also have the National Fire Code rules at his or her finger tips and could make copies of the solid fuel regulations for you if there is no public library near you.oros35 wrote:Thanks! Any idea where I can find codes to read up on?windyhill4.2 wrote: Check your local codes & your home insurance policy for further confirmation .
There is a posting and some downloads about the National fire code rules for solid fuel burning appliances on the forum here.
Its also easy to look up too in the NFC as its the section about using solid fuel "appliances"
and the proper installation of same.
You have to be extra mindfull that in many cases an insurer will not allow an outbuilding with a heating appliance in it that is attached to any other building with a breezeway or roofed walkway too so bear that in your thinking when you start down the path to burning the black rocks.
- windyhill4.2
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- Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both
The concern is the combustion fuel unit in the same vicinity as gasoline vapors.
Solid fuel is not the issue
ANY fuel that feeds a fire in a heating unit has the same criteria with regards to gasoline vapors.
Check with your local zone officer or the local fire chief could likely direct you to the info or codes.
Solid fuel is not the issue
ANY fuel that feeds a fire in a heating unit has the same criteria with regards to gasoline vapors.
Check with your local zone officer or the local fire chief could likely direct you to the info or codes.
- oros35
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- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Cozeburn OWB burning Bit
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Thanks for the info. I've got some research to do!
I'm not planning on doing anything till next year, but would like to start the planning now. Maybe even find a nice used one to go with. Looks to be a good thing since this isn't going to be a typical kinda thing!
I'm not planning on doing anything till next year, but would like to start the planning now. Maybe even find a nice used one to go with. Looks to be a good thing since this isn't going to be a typical kinda thing!
-
- Member
- Posts: 2366
- Joined: Sun. Mar. 25, 2007 8:41 pm
- Location: Ithaca, New York
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: former switzer CWW100-sold
- Coal Size/Type: rice
- Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker/unused
Hello Oros,
Just so you know, you can burn firewood, Anthracite Coal and Bituminous Coal in a Vogelzang circulator and you can put it right where your current stove is.
This is a very economical option for your heating needs and the issue is whether you can purchase bagged Bituminous if that is an option to make the handling easier.
The Vogelzand circulator is less than $1,000.00 plus tax according to the latest prices I found so you can save a ton of money and have your Bituminous Coal bagged with the savings you will have as not work has to be done other than exchanging stoves and cleaning the chimney and
perhaps replacing the old stove pipe with new stove pipe.
http://www.vogelzang.com
Just so you know, you can burn firewood, Anthracite Coal and Bituminous Coal in a Vogelzang circulator and you can put it right where your current stove is.
This is a very economical option for your heating needs and the issue is whether you can purchase bagged Bituminous if that is an option to make the handling easier.
The Vogelzand circulator is less than $1,000.00 plus tax according to the latest prices I found so you can save a ton of money and have your Bituminous Coal bagged with the savings you will have as not work has to be done other than exchanging stoves and cleaning the chimney and
perhaps replacing the old stove pipe with new stove pipe.
http://www.vogelzang.com
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
He wants a boiler...not a stove.
Know anybody selling a hand-fed boiler.
Know anybody selling a hand-fed boiler.
lzaharis wrote:Hello Oros,
Just so you know, you can burn firewood, Anthracite Coal and Bituminous Coal in a Vogelzang circulator and you can put it right where your current stove is.
This is a very economical option for your heating needs and the issue is whether you can purchase bagged Bituminous if that is an option to make the handling easier.
The Vogelzand circulator is less than $1,000.00 plus tax according to the latest prices I found so you can save a ton of money and have your Bituminous Coal bagged with the savings you will have as not work has to be done other than exchanging stoves and cleaning the chimney and
perhaps replacing the old stove pipe with new stove pipe.
http://www.vogelzang.com