KA4 project (pic heavy)

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Qtown1835 On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:03 am

I was able to get the boiler wired up last night, thanks Macgiver for the last minute insight on the wiring. I still need to wire in the 4006B and the new circulator relay field.
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Decided to add an outlet for the stoker motor. I may in the future install an analog 120v timer on the other outlet to log how long the stoker fires.
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Im going to hold off on adding a L6006 for now. I need to slow my roll with the cash spending... :D
So far Im right around a grand to get this unit restored and hooked up which i guess isn't terrible. Although this does not include the cost of the boiler itself.
Looking back through the receipts here are the areas of expense.
1. Pipe/fittings $585
2. Flue $200
3. Insulation $80
4. Gauges $60
5, Misc. & Paint $40
6. Electrical $35
Qtown1835
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman MKIII
Coal Size/Type: Nut & Rice Lehigh
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Visit Leisure Line

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:09 am

4006B, what does this control? It may do same as 6006???
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Qtown1835 On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:16 am

McGiever wrote:4006B, what does this control? It may do same as 6006???


The 4006 closes on temp rise, rather than open like the 6006. I will wire the 4006 to fire a circulator relay for a dump zone.
Qtown1835
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman MKIII
Coal Size/Type: Nut & Rice Lehigh
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:31 am

Okay, gotcha. There are models w/ different suffix letter that have both set of contacts, but having 2 separate aquastats give you wider setpoint adjustment.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: StokerDon On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:14 pm

That is one beautiful install Q! If you've only got a grand or so in the refurb/install, your do'in better than I ever did.

There's only one thing that will make it prettier, put a fire in it's belly!

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-51/EFM S-20 conversion boiler, BairMatic BMC-500 with Van Wert VA400 Stoker, Gentleman Janitor small one piece GJ-51
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Rice and Buckwheat (when I can get it!)
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:24 pm

L1 to #1 on the timer. #4 of timer to ZR terminal. Burner from B1 &B2
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520, 700, Van Wert 800 GJ 61,53
Baseburners & Antiques: Magic Stewart 16, times 2!
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck
Other Heating: Slant Fin electric boiler backup

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: StokerDon On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:32 pm

+1 on what Scott said Q. This will run the timer through the HI limit on the aquastat for added protection. The timer will not be able to run the stoker over the HI limit then.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-51/EFM S-20 conversion boiler, BairMatic BMC-500 with Van Wert VA400 Stoker, Gentleman Janitor small one piece GJ-51
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Rice and Buckwheat (when I can get it!)
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Qtown1835 On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:56 pm

StokerDon wrote:+1 on what Scott said Q. This will run the timer through the HI limit on the aquastat for added protection. The timer will not be able to run the stoker over the HI limit then.

-Don


Awesome thanks. I knew there had to be a way to run it through the triple aquastat. Wasn't sure how the Zr functioned.
Qtown1835
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman MKIII
Coal Size/Type: Nut & Rice Lehigh
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Visit Leisure Line

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:00 pm

Scottscoaled wrote:L1 to #1 on the timer. #4 of timer to ZR terminal. Burner from B1 &B2


Yes, that is how I have always wired the timers as well - straight from the EFM manual. One thing about a Keystoker though, they don't hold a fire nearly as long as an underfed stoker.

If there issues with outfires due to skipped timer cycles, it may be necessary to add the second aquastat and wire as Keystoker suggests.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Qtown1835 On: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:07 am

So i was able to get the boiler lit last night after a few hours of relocating and rewiring the circulator relays. My initial attempts to keep the stoker lit have been met with challenges...but more on that later. Here are some updated pics of the progress.

I decided to relocate all of the circulator relays so that they were more accessible and I wanted to clean up the physical install from what had been done 50years ago.
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The wiring took some time but overall not to bad. Probably about 3 hours to get this part wrapped up.

Next i moved on to getting the flue situated.
This is how the existing oil flue is situated.
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I removed the existing galv. 6" flue and chiseled out the 6"x8" increaser into the clay thimble.
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Once that was out i took the shop vac to the chimney sump and vacuumed out 50years of soot and crud out. Its hard to appreciate the volume of debris accumulated in the sump. There was about 18" of crap in there. i needed to clean out the vac filter twice.
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The horizontal flue was in good condition so that made me a happy camper.
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Finally was able to get the remainder of the 8" flue in place, supported and seams taped.
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And last but not least the "finished" product.
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Like I mentioned in the beginning of the post i have been having challenges keeping the stoker lit. I think i have the feed rate flipped or I am not understanding the # of threads thing.
First attempt. 12 turns.
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Out after about 20min.

2nd attempt. 16turns. Lasted about the same time.
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3rd attempt. 21 turns to get it going and was burning well I thought. backed it down to 14 and went to bed. Thinking 14 would maintain the fire...
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This is what i woke up to. LOL
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So after the first few hours of trying to learn this thing i think i am not understanding the # of turns correctly. I was counting the number of threads from the gear box toward the boiler which i think is backwards. I think i need to count the threads from the stop nut at the boiler side down toward the gear motor. If that is the case, what side of the nut do I "read"? Boiler side or Gear box side?

Side note: Timer is set to run about 60sec every 30min. This timer is noisy, probably will replace with intermatic or macromatic.
Qtown1835
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman MKIII
Coal Size/Type: Nut & Rice Lehigh
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: lzaharis On: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:35 am

If the timer is noisy its time to replace it.

if you invest in the 30 minute Intermatic timer
which is what they come with you will be better off
and have no outfires (unless the power goes off a long time).


With my KAA-4-1 I have my timer set this way:

I have 12 pins at Zero Minutes and 12 pins at Fifteen Minutes and I have no out fires.

NOW:

You need to to do this to make sure the stoker runs correctly:

Turn the adjustment cap nut all the way in-it will resist a little with coal
in the hopper.

To start the fire back the threaded rod out five turns; Meaning position the thread count indicator at the nine o'clock position when you start and back it out 5 full turns-meaning rotating the indicator once for each turn and only once.

Turn the fan on:
use a propane or Mapp gas torch to start your fire with 6-8 broken match light charcoal or charcoal briquettes(4 pound hammers work very good for this)soaked in lighter fluid and wrapped in two sheets of news print. Dont use whole briquettes as they will not burn as hot for you to light the coal off.

Wait five or so minutes and check for a hot fire in the center of the grates; take 2 sheets of news print and put a big handful of coal in the center fold and wrap the coal making a tube and fold the ends under and tape them with scotch tape and then with a gloved hand put the coal pack on the fire and let the fire run some more.

After 30 minutes you can check the fire and it will be burning well and you can change the timer settings to what I use 12 pins at zero minutes, 12 pins at 15 minutes and you will have no more issues.

As long as the hold fire timer is wired correctly your house thermostat will always override the timer.

Please invest in CO detector if you do not have one in the basement already.
lzaharis
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Qtown1835 On: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:48 am

lzaharis wrote:If the timer is noisy its time to replace it.

if you invest in the 30 minute Intermatic timer
which is what they come with you will be better off
and have no outfires (unless the power goes off a long time).


With my KAA-4-1 I have my timer set this way:

I have 12 pins at Zero Minutes and 12 pins at Fifteen Minutes and I have no out fires.

NOW:

You need to to do this to make sure the stoker runs correctly:

Turn the adjustment cap nut all the way in-it will resist a little with coal
in the hopper.

To start the fire back the threaded rod out five turns; Meaning position the thread count indicator at the nine o'clock position when you start and back it out 5 full turns-meaning rotating the indicator once for each turn and only once.

Turn the fan on:
use a propane or Mapp gas torch to start your fire with 6-8 broken match light charcoal or charcoal briquettes(4 pound hammers work very good for this)soaked in lighter fluid and wrapped in two sheets of news print. Dont use whole briquettes as they will not burn as hot for you to light the coal off.

Wait five or so minutes and check for a hot fire in the center of the grates; take 2 sheets of news print and put a big handful of coal in the center fold and wrap the coal making a tube and fold the ends under and tape them with scotch tape and then with a gloved hand put the coal pack on the fire and let the fire run some more.

After 30 minutes you can check the fire and it will be burning well and you can change the timer settings to what I use 12 pins at zero minutes, 12 pins at 15 minutes and you will have no more issues.

As long as the hold fire timer is wired correctly your house thermostat will always override the timer.

Please invest in CO detector if you do not have one in the basement already.


Thanks lzaharis. I think my KA4 stoker feed is different than your new KAA-4. Agreed on the timer though.
Qtown1835
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman MKIII
Coal Size/Type: Nut & Rice Lehigh
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Olllotj On: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:52 am

Adjust from the boiler side

Red nut towards boiler = more feed

Red nut towards gear box = less feed.
Olllotj
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KB-8
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat
Other Heating: Utica Propane Hot Water Baseboard

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Qtown1835 On: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:54 am

Olllotj wrote:Adjust from the boiler side

Red nut towards boiler = more feed

Red nut towards gear box = less feed.


I understand that part, thank you. What i am questioning is when someone says 12 turns does that mean backed off from maximum? or turned up from minimum?
Qtown1835
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker '81 KA4 (online 1/16/17)
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman MKIII
Coal Size/Type: Nut & Rice Lehigh
Other Heating: EFM SPK600

Re: KA4 project (pic heavy)

PostBy: Olllotj On: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:59 am

They saying 12 turns from max ( All the way towards boiler)

Where's the barometric damper?
Olllotj
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KB-8
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat
Other Heating: Utica Propane Hot Water Baseboard

Visit Leisure Line