Very Long Run to Remote Boiler

An old friend of mine is converting from owb to coal. For several reasons he wants to keep the boiler in a shed 300' from his house.
He has always had a constant on circulator, and a very hi electric bill.

What is an easy way to pipe in two circulators ? One small to maintain the loop as ready and hot, small flow. And one large enough to handle his total heat demand.

Or is it a waste of time for the savings of electricity gained ?

Thanks ! Dave

Drag the shed 250' closer!

Dave 1234 wrote:An old friend of mine is converting from owb to coal. For several reasons he wants to keep the boiler in a shed 300' from his house.
He has always had a constant on circulator, and a very hi electric bill.

What is an easy way to pipe in two circulators ? One small to maintain the loop as ready and hot, small flow. And one large enough to handle his total heat demand.

Or is it a waste of time for the savings of electricity gained ?

Thanks ! Dave

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Hello Dave,

Your friend needs to invest in two paperback books, Classic Hydronics and Pumping Away written by Dan Holohan and available at Barnes and Noble or http://www.dansbooks.com

If he orders these books he will have all the help he needs and he will undersatnd completely what he is looking at and what he wants to do as Dan writes his books so the layman can understand HVAC plumbing and also help plumbers that do not do a lot of work on
the many types of heating systems used.

Dans books were a blessing for me and my KAA-4-1 installation.

The first thing is to order these two books so he knows more about what he must deal with as he must size the "circulator" for his needs as a coal stoker will provide the hot water he needs to heat the home as long as the coal stoker boiler and circulator are sized for the load.

Using two circulators would require a separate heat exchanger for the house loop or loops with its own separate water supply, a second set of return lines, a bladder or steel expansion tank and air vent system and a second air vent and separate bladder tank or steel expansion tank for the coal stoker in the barn as coal stoker boilers are set up as closed systems with pressure relief valves.

You could put the heat exchanger in the barn to keep the extra plumbing to a minimum but if the barn is not insulated you could or will have freeze damage and broken piping.

Please order the two books I mentioned as they will help him understand what he has to do to use the coal stoker boiler for his heating system

You can plumb hydronic heating systems in a lot of ways and or just keep them simple and cost effective.

Dave 1234 wrote:An old friend of mine is converting from owb to coal. For several reasons he wants to keep the boiler in a shed 300' from his house.
He has always had a constant on circulator, and a very hi electric bill.

What is an easy way to pipe in two circulators ? One small to maintain the loop as ready and hot, small flow. And one large enough to handle his total heat demand.

Or is it a waste of time for the savings of electricity gained ?

Thanks ! Dave

Hi Dave,
What is his electric hog of a pump model?

McGiever, I'll have to look myself, but he said ''it's a 12''

I did laugh about moving the shed !!!!! It's true but not possible.

Dave

Ha! A Taco 012. A mainstay for the OWB crowd. Have him change it out for a B&G NRF-25. 012 performance from a pump that draws the same amps as a 007. $89 from Supplyhouse.com

Olllotj wrote:Drag the shed 250' closer!

That is a very good idea !!
The less pipe in the ground the less heat will be lost to the ground.

Now on the issue of 2 circulators,yes it is possible & yes it works.
Power useage for 60 watt bulb & a Taco 007 are the same,i use 1 Taco 007 to constantly circulate water thru a 600' loop that has 2 water to water plate exchangers in it too. In that same loop, #2 Taco 007 with closely spaced tees in this loop,runs on the demand of t-stat for my house's water to air heat exchanger. I set it up this way in Sept 2006 & it is still working fine.

Have him read through my thread in the Leisure Line section.....I made the same switch and I'm 220' from the house. There have been many, many pitfalls and I have it sorted out now and it's running about as good as it can. From my experience he should expect very high coal consumption, granted I only have a single loop with 3 different heat exchangers along that route which could be done a little different as you stated with adding a secondary loop. I have opted to install my unit (under the advice of every member on this forum) in the basement to achieve (hopefully) maximum efficiency from this boiler. Granted I like having it in the barn...no mess, very easy to take care of ash and so on but I am not a huge fan of going through a ton of coal every 3 weeks! I understand he may not have that option and I didn't think I was going to move mine either. Just something to consider.

I hope that underground piping is well insulated, or he will have a coal hog of a boiler.

He may be overpumping the system already, depending on what is at the other end of the loop. I like Scott's idea.

Scottscoaled wrote:Ha! A Taco 012. A mainstay for the OWB crowd. Have him change it out for a B&G NRF-25. 012 performance from a pump that draws the same amps as a 007. $89 from Supplyhouse.com

Rob R. wrote:I hope that underground piping is well insulated, or he will have a coal hog of a boiler.

He may be overpumping the system already, depending on what is at the other end of the loop. I like Scott's idea.

Scottscoaled wrote:Ha! A Taco 012. A mainstay for the OWB crowd. Have him change it out for a B&G NRF-25. 012 performance from a pump that draws the same amps as a 007. $89 from Supplyhouse.com

You know Rob, I can about guarantee I'm over pumping my system with that Taco 2400 series high capacity circulator. I may snag one of those 3 speed jobs this weekend and see what happens?

The worst thing that can happen is you have a $90 pump to sell to someone else on here, or you just save it until the boiler is moved. One of those 3-speed pumps would be plenty to serve the heater in your shop from the house.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Bell-Gossett-103417-NRF-25-Red-Fox-Circulator-Pump-3-Speed

Dave 1234 wrote:I did laugh about moving the shed !!!!! It's true but not possible.

Is it not possible to move the boiler or the shed? Or he doesnt want to? Hes trying to achieve efficiency with arguably the least efficient "burning contraption" available. On top of that he's using a inefficient delivery system. Im pretty sure he can save money with a new pump, but it pales in comparison to what he could save if he sold the whole owb system and started from scratch. Maybe even sell the shed and boiler and the ground it sits on to the neighbor and use the cash to buy a whole new system

Your friend is going to get fat.

Assuming only 4 tendings a day, he's going to lose about 3.5 Miles of exercise per week, just walking back and forth.

Think about that distance when folks mention moving it closer

I have the B+G NRF 25 without the check valve and
I have it on speed one and it works very well with
my single loop baseboard heating set up and my
boilers low operating temperatures of 120 low/150 high
with the fifteen degree differential.

Thank you all for the quick and kind replies . I will forward you wisdom to him. My boiler at one time was going into my barn. Now 3 winters later I can't imagine going out to check the fire. Or worse yet to change a bad control on a cold night.

Dave