what will give me better Efficiency

Re: what will give me better Efficiency

PostBy: Sting On: Wed May 14, 2008 7:13 pm

LsFarm wrote:Sting,, remember, there is nothing to condense from a coal fire,, there is just some fly ash. and heat.. I have run my boilers as low as 120*, and a brush will wipe off the fly ash.

Now, an LP, NG, Pellet, or cornburner or wood burner,, they create water in the combustion process.. a whole 'nuther story.

Greg L


Yes I understand - folks want to tell me there is no drama in cold operation

But I have hacked out boilers that have been run cold - I have hired Becker boiler - Milwaukee boiler - and others to retube boilers run too cold - It must be the coal we used to get off the lake Michigan docks - full of salt water!!!!!

I just replaced the tube roller I borrowed and lost in anticipation of doing Baby boiler this season. It doesn't hurt for me to rant and have folks stick their neck in there once in a while and check.
Last edited by Sting on Wed May 14, 2008 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: what will give me better Efficiency

PostBy: Sting On: Wed May 14, 2008 7:23 pm

1975gt750 wrote:ther is no manual stoker feed on my keystoker but i would be nothing wire a button on the boiler or even one up staires. just push the button to feed the coal and then have dinner then be ready for showers. it may work . in your opion how long do you think the boiler should stoke for to come up to temp. right now the boiler hangs around 150 all day when the boiler mate calles for heat it can drop down to about 130 and then stoke for about 45-60 minutesto get back to temp but then after the boiler mate stopes teh call for heat the boiler will shoot up to 180-200 and that is wasted heat. any suggestions gregg



If I may

Some ODR controls offer a two stage operation - as OCCUPIED and UNOCCUPIED

I have used this in churches that during the week have a low constant demand but with the switch of a 7 day timer - changed the control to occupied at midnight Saturday (returning to unoccupied at 9 Sunday) for fast sanctuary and class room warm ups

You could do the same if demand is the same every day - or over wire a Honeywell strap on control - switched from public location - include a noid light so you know its on hot fire sequence- or timer to command a hotter appliance for morning showers.
Last edited by Sting on Wed May 14, 2008 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: what will give me better Efficiency

PostBy: Highlander On: Wed May 14, 2008 7:54 pm

Your Keystoker KAA2 is similar in design to the Harman, so I'll give you my 2 cents on how to improve the efficiency.

If the combustion air blower doesn't run continuously, it should, especially if your going to run it all summer when chimney draft is minimal. It will prevent outfires when the draft isn't sufficient to maintain a fire especially with very low burn rates. With that said, I think that combustion air needs to be proportional to the amount of heat being produced, you want plenty of air when you are trying to pull lots of BTU's, but less air when it's idling along. Excess air at idle, just dilutes the flue gasses and pushes heat up the chimney. I use a two speed fan, with a speed control, but a second smaller blower would work also, I don't like the idea of a throttle plate over the blower, it limits the maximum amount of air that is necessesary to get all the heat that the boiler is capable of.

I also believe that the on- off control system that is supplied with these boilers wastes fuel also. The guys at Coaltrol know this, their system drives the stoker in a time proportional manner based on how much heat is needed at the particuar moment. A good analogy is trying to maintain your car at 60mph while alternately stomping the pedal to the floor and then completely releasing it. Its worse with the coal boiler because they respond slowly, and then overshoot the setpoint temp. The only solution I know of for this is to use some form of programmable controller, or other electronic device that allows the fire to ramp up to meet the heat demand, rather then go full tilt, and then cut off. Modern PID temp controls will do this, but most don't have cycle times long enough for a coal stoker, since they are meant to control electric heaters.

Lastly, if your Keystoker doesn't have any insulation between the sheet metal jacket and the boiler itself, add some, it picked my water temperature up between 5 and 10 degrees.
Highlander
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000 Sold
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: VF3000 Stoker Boiler

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Re: what will give me better Efficiency

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed May 14, 2008 8:34 pm

The most economical process for heating summertime domestic hot water would be a de-super heater on a central A/C compressor with water storage in a well insulated indirect hot water heater tank. Removing the super heat from the compressor will also make the A/C refrigerant cycle more efficient.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: what will give me better Efficiency

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Wed May 14, 2008 10:29 pm

When you talk about condensing are you talking about the condensate that forms when you first start up a boiler because the water in the jacket is so much colder? Woud't it burn off as soon as the fire was running 2500 degrees or so? :? Scott
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: what will give me better Efficiency

PostBy: Sting On: Thu May 15, 2008 8:27 am

stokerscot wrote:When you talk about condensing are you talking about the condensate that forms when you first start up a boiler because the water in the jacket is so much colder? Woud't it burn off as soon as the fire was running 2500 degrees or so? :? Scott

Yes Scott -- The very same

and Yes it does burn off when running on hi fire when the vessel is also hot enough - both events play together to thwart condensation during operation. You can see condensation forming on a cold start - on a cold jacket. Condensation manifesting itself on all surfaces doesn't start and then stop as you throw a switch. The process tapers. At any point its not good - simply a variable risk, and that admittedly low risk to a boiler slightly below the old parameter of 140 - it still a risk.

Sort of like being a little pregnant! These days its always better to simply wear your protection. I refer to safety glasses in the boiler room and run temps to promote healthy machinery of course. :lol:

I certainly have been impudent with regard to accepting what others have recently written on this subject. Gate crashers and newbees should bow to the prolific posters. But its time to stand up for something. Ill stand here. You can stand and circulate your wet system at what ever temp you like - heck run as low as you can or as hi as you need - I don't mean to dictate what folks should and should not do. That wouldn't be friendly. I simply wish operators might understand the ramifications of their actions and watch for the possibilities. There are places every system where 90 degree water is safe and may lend to economical - comfortable dwelling temps. That's not the boiler!

Hey buddy - when are we going to hear more of your little project?????
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: what will give me better Efficiency

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Thu May 15, 2008 8:42 am

Work calls. :( Scott
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: what will give me better Efficiency

PostBy: beatle78 On: Fri May 16, 2008 1:16 pm

1975gt750 wrote:just thought i could lower my 4006b aquastat to dump the exrta heat into the hotwater tank because that is my dump zone.
and that boiler mate is well insulated and would keep in the heat rather than going up the chimney
just a thought


I like this idea! Just be aware that the DWH may get REALLY hot. A anti-scald valve may be in order.

This way you are storing that "wasted" energy in an insulated hw storage tank!

Keep us posted!!! I think I may do the same thing!!!.... when I get my boiler.
beatle78
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker KA-4

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