Coal Gun S- 130 Install

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: FirstcoalstokerRon On: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:39 pm

Rob R. wrote:One thing I should point out, "Monoflow" is the trade name of the system that Bell & Gossett developed. The technical name for this type of system is a diverter tee system. Taco had their own version of this, and there might be others.

Ron, my uncle's house has a system very similar to yours. His has a 1.25" line that comes out of the boiler and goes all the way down to the opposite end of the basement, from there it splits into two 1" lines which follow the perimeter of the house back to the boiler. If you wanted to control each half of the loop independently, you could do that with two zone valves and two thermostats.


Rob you are right I was wrong as mine also splits into two 1" loops, not a 1.25" and a 1" as I stated before. When my grandparents bought this house 50 some years ago there was a gas boiler with a big red Bell & Gossett circulator and one thermostat, The B&G has been replaced with a Taco.

As of now the left loop goes to the bedrooms, laundry room and bath room and it also has 3/4" loop going to a radiator in the basement. The right loop goes to the living room and then the dinning room. I want to make the right loop zone 1 and the left loop zone 2. As the bathroom is last in line on the left loop I am going to cut it out and make the bathroom zone 3 because I want the bathroom hotter than the bed rooms. Zone 4 will be the radiator in the basement I will make it a dump zone for the COAL GUN .

The spa room will be zones 5 & 6 do to its size and the fact I heat the spa and the swim tank with home made heat exchangers I will install two zones in the spa room.

Each zone will have a circulator and a thermostat as needed, I am going to use circulators instead of zone valves as I have the circulators.

Can I make a 1.50" "manifold" coming off the boiler and take each zone off of it with a ball valve before and after each circulator ??
FirstcoalstokerRon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: FirstcoalstokerRon On: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:42 am

I want to say thanks for all the help I have received from all of you. As I move along with my coal gun S-130 install "YES I KNOW I MOVE VERY SLOW" I seem to be having a brain freeze as weather I need a bypass loop or not, nether the old gas boiler or the elect boiler had one and all I have read seems to say coal boilers do, but I have also read that they don't. I have searched it and the more I read the more confused I get, so if I do need to put in a bypass loop would u please tell me where it goes to and from.
FirstcoalstokerRon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:23 am

FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:I want to say thanks for all the help I have received from all of you. As I move along with my coal gun S-130 install "YES I KNOW I MOVE VERY SLOW" I seem to be having a brain freeze as weather I need a bypass loop or not, nether the old gas boiler or the elect boiler had one and all I have read seems to say coal boilers do, but I have also read that they don't. I have searched it and the more I read the more confused I get, so if I do need to put in a bypass loop would u please tell me where it goes to and from.


Do you mean a dump zone (that gets rid of excessive heat in the boiler) perhaps? Any existing zone can double as the dump zone, or you can set up a dedicated heat dump radiator.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: FirstcoalstokerRon On: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:16 pm

FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:I want to say thanks for all the help I have received from all of you. As I move along with my coal gun S-130 install "YES I KNOW I MOVE VERY SLOW" I seem to be having a brain freeze as weather I need a bypass loop or not, nether the old gas boiler or the elect boiler had one and all I have read seems to say coal boilers do, but I have also read that they don't.

lsayre wrote:
Do you mean a dump zone (that gets rid of excessive heat in the boiler) perhaps? Any existing zone can double as the dump zone, or you can set up a dedicated heat dump radiator. /quote

I have a dump zone figured out, I am going to run 1" copper to the radiator in the basement. I was referring to the bypass / primary loop used to heat the return water coming from the zones. I have seen diagrams pics and read and still don't understand is it gravity fed or does it need a circulator and does it go into the unused return tapping or into the return loop before it returns into the boiler?? Does a COAL GUN S-130 need one, at first it seem so simple but the more I read the more confused I get.
FirstcoalstokerRon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:45 pm

Depending upon your system, you may benefit from a bypass valve. For zone valves I recommend a DPBV (differential pressure bypass valve).

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-3196-1- ... -4424000-p

I don't think a bypass is necessary if you have a primary/secondary arrangement. One in which a primary loop (which is always hot) is feeding secondary loops with their own circulators.

The principle is to mix some degree of hot boiler water (via the bypass) with cold zone water on the return leg, so the boiler is not shocked or overwhelmed with the cold returning water. A primary/secondary arrangement accomplishes this by default.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: FirstcoalstokerRon On: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:01 pm

lsayre wrote:Depending upon your system, you may benefit from a bypass valve. For zone valves I recommend a DPBV (differential pressure bypass valve).

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Taco-3196-1- ... -4424000-p

I don't think a bypass is necessary if you have a primary/secondary arrangement. One in which a primary loop (which is always hot) is feeding secondary loops with their own circulators.

The principle is to mix some degree of hot boiler water (via the bypass) with cold zone water on the return leg, so the boiler is not shocked or overwhelmed with the cold returning water. A primary/secondary arrangement accomplishes this by default.


It seems that I posted a reply to lsayre's post that did not post. Did I do something wrong ? Is there some reason other than my stupidly that it did not post. I would post again just don't want to double post it.
FirstcoalstokerRon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:16 pm

Better post it again. It's not here.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: FirstcoalstokerRon On: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:20 pm

lsayre wrote:Better post it again. It's not here.

LOL Ok thanks lsayre now all I have to do is think what I wrote and asked. I will redo it later but for now any ideas why it did not post ??
FirstcoalstokerRon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:24 pm

FirstcoalstokerRon wrote:
lsayre wrote:Better post it again. It's not here.

LOL Ok thanks lsayre now all I have to do is think what I wrote and asked. I will redo it later but for now any ideas why it did not post ??

Whatever happened, it is on your end. I just looked in the moderator logs and nothing has happened here at this end. Blame it on solar flares and repost. :)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: FirstcoalstokerRon On: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:14 pm

coaledsweat wrote:Whatever happened, it is on your end. I just looked in the moderator logs and nothing has happened here at this end. Blame it on solar flares and repost. :)


Better to blame it on solar flares than on my stupidity I will repost later and thanks. :cry:
Last edited by FirstcoalstokerRon on Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Quote box, that was on your end too! LOL
FirstcoalstokerRon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: FirstcoalstokerRon On: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:44 pm

lsayre wrote:Depending upon your system, you may benefit from a bypass valve. For zone valves I recommend a DPBV (differential pressure bypass valve).
I don't think a bypass is necessary if you have a primary/secondary arrangement. One in which a primary loop (which is always hot) is feeding secondary loops with their own circulators.


Its the primary/secondary loop I am having trouble understanding. my supply comes off the top of the boiler and then I have 3 zones coming off the 1.25 pipe, each with a circulator, the last in line is a 90 degree elbow rather than a tee so the supply pipe does not return to the boiler till after it goes through one or all of the zones. My question is if I replace the 90 degree elbow with a tee and return it to the return loop just before it enters the bottom of the boiler what will stop the cooler water from the return being pulled into the heating zones when the circulators start to pump? Does the bypass loop need a circulator and/or a valve?? If the thermostats are not calling for heat and the water in the zone loops get cold how does the bypass loop heat them with out a pump?? Anyone have a simple diagram that I can understand??
Last edited by FirstcoalstokerRon on Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Quote box
FirstcoalstokerRon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:25 pm

This (admittedly poor drawing) shows a primary circulation loop with 3 secondary (user(s)) zone loops (each with its own circulator). My outline is pretty rudimentary, and I'm certain that others can expound upon the concept, and tell you how to improve the actual layout, but I believe this should work. At the very least each section will need flow-check valves, unless each circulator has one built in.

Primary_Secondary.pdf
(9.23 KiB) Downloaded 13 times
Select:BBcode: [nepafile=79213]Primary_Secondary.pdf[/nepafile]
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:00 pm

My initial guess is that the primary loop should be flowing at 6 to perhaps 9 GPM, and each secondary user/zone should be flowing at only about 2 to perhaps 3 GPM. Something along the lines of an 007 on the primary, and 005's on each secondary.

3/4" on the secondary loops, and 1" to 1-1/4" on the primary should work.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: FirstcoalstokerRon On: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:18 pm

lsayre wrote:This (admittedly poor drawing) shows a primary circulation loop with 3 secondary (user(s)) zone loops (each with its own circulator). My outline is pretty rudimentary, and I'm certain that others can expound upon the concept, and tell you how to improve the actual layout, but I believe this should work. At the very least each section will need flow-check valves, unless each circulator has one built in.


Thanks only thing is my system pumps from the primary loop into the zones and then joins into a return loop that goes into the boiler, it does not return to the primary loop. All the circulators are in the secondary loop and there is no pump on the primary loop. Do I need to add one to circulate the hot boiler water back into the return line?? if so what turns it on ?? I understand how the diagram u sent works but as I said my return goes to the boiler not back into the primary loop and that's were I get confused as to how it works? Do I need a pump or valves to make it circulate?? I am sorry I am not able to understand this but got almost all the zones plumbed and heating with the elect boiler so ill finish with the install of the COAL GUN and will keep reading about the bypass and I can show a diagram if it will help, its not cute as yours but ill send if u want it Thanks again & I hope I am not becoming a pain in the butt.
Last edited by FirstcoalstokerRon on Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Quote box
FirstcoalstokerRon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S-130
Coal Size/Type: pea/anthracite

Re: coal gun s- 130 install

PostBy: lsayre On: Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:53 pm

A rudimentary sketch of your system would help us understand what you have.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)