Insulate the basement walls?

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: Den034071 On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:02 pm

Anyone framed the basement wall an then had the Blown Foam that expands like a Marshmellow .I seen it done in a new house .The foam creeps around electric boxes an pipes .Seems like a darn good idea . jack
Den034071
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer, 3095


Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:18 pm

rberq wrote:Except us old-house people where the rim joist is an 8 X 8 or larger timber.


Jealous. That's what I have for my main beam in the front part of the house, but not on the edges. When we added the top stories on, we used standard construction.
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:20 pm

Den034071 wrote:Anyone framed the basement wall an then had the Blown Foam that expands like a Marshmellow .I seen it done in a new house .The foam creeps around electric boxes an pipes .Seems like a darn good idea . jack


I use a lot of expanding foam. Be sure to get the "pro" version and the nozzle. Box stores now carry it and it's fireblock orange.

MUCH better than the spray-n-pray plastic nozzle version that is lucky to have 4 out of 5 cans work at all or get 80% out of them ;)
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:48 pm

CoalisCoolxWarm wrote:
rberq wrote:Except us old-house people where the rim joist is an 8 X 8 or larger timber.

Jealous. That's what I have for my main beam in the front part of the house, but not on the edges. When we added the top stories on, we used standard construction.

Don't be too jealous. I'd give up the extra wood in return for a solid modern concrete foundation that didn't move around. We have a family friend who specializes in fixing the old fieldstone-and-granite foundations, and he charges $100 an hour for his time. Plus pay for his helper(s). There's an old house five miles from us that they jacked up this summer, excavated underneath and poured a whole new foundation. Judging from the time and equipment and people involved, I estimate it was at least a $50,000 job.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
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Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: 69dartgt On: Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:58 am

Den034071 wrote:Anyone framed the basement wall an then had the Blown Foam that expands like a Marshmellow .I seen it done in a new house .The foam creeps around electric boxes an pipes .Seems like a darn good idea . jack


That would have been my first choice but the cost involved, whether you buy a kit to do it or have a professional come, is a bit prohibitive. Can't see there would be a whole lot of difference in insulating value between spray foam and foam board? Not sure.
69dartgt
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magnum

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:56 am

69dartgt wrote:That would have been my first choice but the cost involved, whether you buy a kit to do it or have a professional come, is a bit prohibitive. Can't see there would be a whole lot of difference in insulating value between spray foam and foam board? Not sure.


There's the trick! I use both. I use foamboard when and where I can, then seal it up with the foam gun.

For rim joists- which I've only done a handful because I have wires and lots of other stuff that has to happen there first- I cut 2" thick foamboard with about 1/4"-1/2" gap around it, slide it in and hold it in place, then stick the tip of the gun in the gap about an inch and do my best to fill the gap, just the 2" thickness of the board, all the way around.

It makes an airtight seal, holds the foam in place nicely, and often leaves the wires BEHIND the foamboard, without being covered in foam.

My idea on that is when/if I need to access the wires, I can simply break the foamboard and pull it out. The Pro foam is not too bad to pull off and scrape from a surface, so it can simply be replaced after whatever work is finished.

Is it a perfect method? Nope. It leaves a gap between the rim joist and the foam. But I often make it up as I go and steal any ideas I think would be helpful ;)

For walls, large sheets of 2" foamboard, covered with OSB, then foam gun seal all the edges and any gaps. Same with electrical boxes.

Cost wise, this is the best combination I've found on the foam side. Replacing fiberglass insulation between studs in walls and ceilings with new R13 (vs R11 thrown in many years prior with little care) and taking care to completely fill the voids and staple the vapor barrier continuously is the other part.

Results? The upstairs rooms we've completed (also has 3/4" pine tongue and groove run wide and horizontally to look like the interior of a log cabin) can be 70F when we go to bed and kick it down to 65F will often be 66F or 67F in the early am, WITHOUT any heat running in that zone for about 7-8hrs. This is down to about low 30's like we have now.

Maybe not "spectacular" results, but considering there used to be spots where we could see daylight (!) and running heat constantly had marginal results, it's a pretty big improvement for us.
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:02 pm

Super R factor wall insulation is overkill for below grade anyhow. Ground temp below frost line moderates ~50* F depending what latitude you're located at. There's no wind blowing below grade either. You only need to stop the bleeding of heat.
1/4" fan fold foam board will be day and night difference. :)
Go cheap as possible but don't leave an exposed fire hazard indoors is all. :idea:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
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Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: Waswood On: Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:38 pm

When we built this house my "wise" dad advised me to use pearlite insulation in the block . I am thankful I did . 12inch block full of insulation. I am wondering if you could drill some holes in your top plate and pour it in now? That stuff will find every hole and fill that wall full. I'm not sure how far apart you would have to drill holes?
Waswood
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS 160


Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: coalder On: Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:24 pm

Not for nothing, I have been in contracting business for about 30 years. & have posted on this thread how I would recommend insulating a foundation from the inside. Everyone can have their own opinion; But the method which I described in great detail, is regarded by most other contractors as the most feasible way. Spin your wheels if it makes ya happy. :D
Jim
coalder
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: harman sf 160
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: wood parlor stove

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:07 pm

Infiltration is the enemy...
Tiger foam kits fire rated closed cell...
right around $1/board foot...
Do the rim joist for about $200...
http://tigerfoam.com/sprayfoaminsulation/order-products/spray-foam-insulation-kits/
Field stone walls need freeze protection...
Concrete walls if below frost line not so much...
If it is block depends if it is dry...
Fight infiltration first...
Then work the walls...
Foil bubble wrap works too...
Foam board the outside to 4 feet if possible...
Have the mass of the house work for you...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:19 pm

69dartgt wrote:Just curious if any one has real-life experience with the before and after difference from insulating basement walls. We live in a average ranch size house with a Harman Mag Stoker in the basement. I burn about 3 ton of Lehigh :D rice a year and know i should insulate the block basement walls. I'm wondering how much coal I will save because I am not heating the walls and ground around the house? Any info or speculation is appreciated.


I have an average size ranch.

...well as the season winds down I thought I would add to the OP question in hopes of shining some on the subject.
My basement footprint is 28' X 38' 7'6" high block walls, give or take some. I bought 12 sheets of 4' X 8' X 1/2" rigid foam foil faced both sides, enough to do approx half of the basement. I insulated the half where my box stove sits furthest from the basement stairs. I ran vertical strapping 2' on center and ran the insulation horizontal leaving a 3/4" air space between the insulation and cinder block.
Immediately the different was felt as the insulation guarded the walls from sucking ten's of thousands of btu's before the floors above were warmed radiating to the living space. The cooler air falling down the steps was also more advanced and added to the stoves efficiency and smooth running.
This winter has been like most normal winters for this area and we still have 2 ft of snow and ice on the ground but now the rains have come in to lessen that.
I have a Vigilant 2310 sitting in my living room that would normally burn a ton of coal thru it during the coldest part of winter which we did have but this season I have burned less than half a ton and only bought TSC 'nut size in lots of 6 or 8 bags at a time. Last winter I burned 3 ton of stove size in the basement stove during an abnormally warm winter, ( people were kayaking on Christmas eve on South Twin lake ), but this yr has been colder and longer and I just cracked the 3rd ton for the basement last week and only burn 25 -30 lbs a day now.
i spent approx $180.00 on insulation, strapping, Tap-Cons, roofing nails, and foil tape and I am on course to save close to a ton of coal. My stove size coal cost me $350.00 for 2500 lbs (50 X 50lb bags) and TSC coal is $5.99/bag...I saved approx $250.00 if I factor in burning for another week or so.
This off season I will finish insulating the basement and next season the vigilant will be quietly heating the basement and my base burner will be sitting in the living room :) ...so no more box stove requiring electricity to run it's blower. That alone is approx $20.00/month in electricity...win, win.
So in conclusion: Yes! it is worth it and it does pay for itself immediately!
Thanks for listening.

Mike
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box stove, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Baseburners & Antiques: Home Sparkle 12
Coal Size/Type: Coal Contractor's stove, a little Kimmels 'nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: Wren On: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:48 pm

Gutted the house and basement insulation came out too. Definitely makes a difference and the walls will definitely be insulated again before next winter. Especially along where the foundation walls meet the house. The stone isn't so cold it's where things meet and holes people made for wires and dryers.
Wren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Tiger 130, Glenwood 116
Coal Size/Type: Stove
Other Heating: Drolet woodstove, gas

Re: Insulate the basement walls?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:10 pm

Indeed--I had them & before I filled them it was like wind tunnels.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut