Problem connecting to masonry chimney

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:36 am

Here's some info for you.

ICC Clearances 803.10.6 Table.png
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[nepathumb]77739[/nepathumb]


Full doc link: http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/content/2015-I-Codes/2015%20IMC%20HTML/CHAPTER%208.html

Chapters 8 and 9 might be of interest, too: http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/toc/2015/I-Codes/2015%20IMC%20HTML/index.html


BTW, NFPA.org puts this info behind their login firewall- abusive in my opinion (perhaps my Representative can get this fixed), but the links I provided should work from iccsafe.org
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler


Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:42 am

Tryingitout wrote:I have 4". I can easily install a couple sheets of metal, with air spaces. I am not sure how to calculate the clearance if I do.


The way I read the code, 18 inches is the minimum, then with methods posted, up to 66% reduction, would be just under 8 inches.

Separate from a code regulation, thin metal sheet (or 2 layers, each with 1" between each other and a surface) with a slight slope and room behind for natural convection of room air is a method that can be used to reduce heat transfer between surfaces.

I won't say that will work for stovepipe or meet code standards, though.

Do you have a pic or sketch of the problem area, showing how you want to run the pipe?
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:38 pm

Tryingitout wrote:Need some help connecting my Keystoker k-2 to my masonry chimney. In order stay within the proper ceiling clearance at the connection, I need to use double wall insulated pipe. The problem with that is I need to 90 into the chimney, and the don't seem to make a 90. The only other way I can think of is a tee with a cap, and drop out the bottom, but not sure if that acceptable.

Thanks Garey


Garey, how much clearance is there?

Is this the elbow you are looking for?

https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-dsp- ... -5391.html
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:06 pm

Rob- He posted this earlier. I think it is way too close for a reduction, probably have to go with a zero clearance/triplewall solution?

Tryingitout wrote:I have 4". I can easily install a couple sheets of metal, with air spaces. I am not sure how to calculate the clearance if I do.
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous- offline as of winter 2014
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Buckwheat
Other Heating: Oil Boiler

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:01 pm

I can't believe that someone put a thimble that close to a joist, but apparently that is the case. Is there room in the chimney to have a 2nd thimble put in? (Lower).?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:51 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Here ya go - from the NFPA 211. A PDF file of the code for connector clearances and methods of reducing clearance (the PDF file name says it's for stoves, but it's for connectors. And the same for reducing clearnces for solid appliances right below that.

I've posted these a few times. Maybe these should be made into a sticky ??

Paul

You make a thread up, I'll sticky it. ;)


Thanks CS - how's this ?

http://nepacrossroads.com/post605410.html#p605410

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:42 pm

Lots of replies thanks. My plan is to purchase double wall pipe, that reduces the over head clearance to 6", then use 2 pieces of sheet metal with air spaces. It may not meet NFPA, but I believe it will work fine. (No permits, so no inspectors!) I think I might even have a piece of durarock I can cover the joist.
Tryingitout
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow Sadly Retired
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Propane furnace/elec. water heater

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:19 pm

From a practical standpoint, you will be fine using two pieces of sheet metal, especially with the double wall flue pipe. I made my own double wall using an 8" pipe for my 6" single wall flue pipe in the workshop and the IR gauge on the skin of the double wall always shows room temp no matter how hot the stoker is running.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite


Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:15 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Thanks CS - how's this ?

http://nepacrossroads.com/post605410.html#p605410

Paul

That works, Ta Da! :)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:26 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Thanks CS - how's this ?

http://nepacrossroads.com/post605410.html#p605410

Paul

That works, Ta Da! :)


My old arthritic typing finger thanks you very much. :)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:53 pm

Tryingitout wrote:Lots of replies thanks. My plan is to purchase double wall pipe, that reduces the over head clearance to 6", then use 2 pieces of sheet metal with air spaces. It may not meet NFPA, but I believe it will work fine. (No permits, so no inspectors!) I think I might even have a piece of durarock I can cover the joist.


I was under the impression this had to get the nod from an inspector.

A double wall elbow and single piece of steel on 1" spacers is plenty.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:59 pm

And if you have the Durarock, covering the joists with it will give an added margin of safety.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Tryingitout On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:23 pm

Rob the thimble was from my old oil furnace, that's why is was that close. No way to lower the inlet, it is only 3" above the bottom.

Coaliscoolxwarm you have a tee at the top of your pipe, is this acceptable? If so I might rethink the regular double wall for insulated double wall, then I don't have to worry about the clearance.
Tryingitout
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 30-95 EZ Flow Sadly Retired
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Propane furnace/elec. water heater

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:48 pm

If you put the Durock up and one piece of metal any distance down, you dont have to worry about anything....

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Other Heating: Gas boiler backup/main
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Problem connecting to masonry chimney

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:59 pm

[quote="Tryingitout"]Rob the thimble was from my old oil furnace, that's why is was that close. No way to lower the inlet, it is only 3" above the bottom. [quote]

I have one that is similar, the thimble for my EFM is actually in what used to be an old basement window. They bricked up half the window and put a thimble through to an exterior chimney. My oil boiler flue pipe isn't much better...I think that only has 8" or 10" between it and the nearest joist.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy