Hotblast year 3

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: CoalHeat On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:33 am

On very windy days I'd had the chimney for the hand fed suddenly reverse and blow out fumes through the baro and the stove, it only lasts for a second or two. That was when I didn't have a cap on the top of the chimney. I haven't had it occur this season since I finally got a cap up there.
CoalHeat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Baseburners & Antiques: Sears Signal Oak 15 & Andes Kitchen Range
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

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Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:36 am

larryfoster wrote:Is there a way that I can check for a rupture, Lee?

Just inspect what you can from inside the fire box. If nothing is found, you'd need to do a total clean out, pull out the fire bricks, front and rear liner, grates and frames. Then clean it thoroughly and look again. To be sure you'd need to remove the air jacket and put a bright light inside the fire box and inspect the outside looking for light to make its way thru a crack.

Yeah, it'd be a big job.

For now it might be wiser to rule out other causes first.

Like Paul suggested, was there any odor in the house when the alarms sounded? If not, the CO may have come from something else.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:10 pm

Larry,

If it leaked out, it is highly likely that it will also leak in. Use the smoldering string test again to find any leaks. Just slowly pass it very closely over every inch of the stove - stating right down at the stove base.

See if the smoke wavers toward, or gets sucked in, anywhere more so than what normal convection air movement is causing around the stove. Any change in how the smoke rises may be indicating air movement into the stove, that could turn into a leak out of the stove.

Then do the same with the stove pipe, chimney thimble, and the chimney joints/cracks.

Is there anywhere the chimney is exposed inside the house above the basement,.... so that if there is loose mortar or cracked bricks/block that could cause a leak into the house because of a warm house stack affect induced draft ?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:02 pm

My wife and daughter were home when the alarm went off.
My wife is under the weather and in bed (unrelated to the event) so I can't ask her at the moment and my daughter doesn't recall noticing any odor.

I'm trying to figure out the smoldering string thing or, at least, what I may have that I can use.
Do I do that test while the fire is out?

Regarding my chimney, the exposed part is pretty solid.
Some is covered over and was in the same room as the detectors.

I should be able to start tackling the pipes in a little while and try to blow out the chimney
I'll keep you posted and see if I have any questions, then
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:55 pm

Light the string and let it burn a few seconds. Then blow out the flame. If it's mostly cotton, it will continue to burn but by smoldering - producing a very narrow, concentrated stream of smoke.

Or, use the long, thin, incense sticks sometimes called, "punks".

Anything that will produce a narrow, concentrated, and consistent trail of smoke, that is easily seen, can be used.

Hold the smoldering end near the surface of the stove - almost touching it - and slowly move it along,.... like you would use a small paint brush to evenly coat the surface - but moving more slowly.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:14 pm

BTW, the chimney for my fireplace looks very solid, too......

..... unless you take into account all the creosote stains running down the outside of it that show that the "solid" looking mortar and brick is actually leaking like a sieve.

Get the stove/chimney hot and then check it to see if smoke leaks in. If it does, then stove exhaust can leak out when the wind and stove conditions meet in that "perfect storm" called draft reversal.

For the safety of you and your family, don't assume anything is ok until you have thoroughly checked it out !!!!! ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:29 pm

Thanks for the explanation on the string.
I tried the incense but they didn't produce enough smoke to tell anything.
Cheap dollar store stuff
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:35 pm

A question about the chimney.
If the chimney is lined with a solid continuous stainless liner, it shouldn't leak (unless it were deteriorated pretty bad and have holes.
If that is correct, the condition of the bricks isn't a factor which (quite possibly) I am missing.
I'm heading down to inspect and clean the pipes and stack.
Will report back
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

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Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:29 pm

Just finished cleaning the pipes and blowing out the chimney.
I got a lot of stuff out of the pipes but very little out of the chimney including the cleanout at the bottom.
I don't think the pipes were plugged, though they need cleaned.

Let me run this scenario past and see if this could have been a possible cause.
Friday night I closed the primary air damper to @ 1/2 open to slow the burn.
Following is what I recorded for Saturday morning

3/18/18
6:00 AM May have dampered fire too much last night.
Lots of unburned coal but hot coals . Shook 1 pan . Poked to break up and caught up. Spinner open secondary open
7:00 Closed secondary open ash door
7:30 Closed ash door open secondary spinner open400 129 68
11:00 1/3 pan ashes 1/2 bucket boogers 6 shovels
1:45 CO detectors went off


At the 11:00 tending, the firebox was full of coal.
Because I had to leave, I didn't have a blow torch fire.
It wasn't a good fire.

I'm wondering if the "smoldering" and low burn may have created the CO.
Last edited by larryfoster on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:40 pm

larryfoster wrote:I'm wondering if the "smoldering and low burn may have created the CO.


I would say yes IF there wasn't enough heat to maintain draft and it reversed.

What exactly was the condition of the fire when you got home after the CO alarm sounded? Was it cold? Was it drafting? Could you smell coal exhaust in the basement?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:49 pm

I did not smell any coal exhaust.

I don't remember, exactly, the condition.
I was too bust being nervous, freaking out and trying to remediate.

:?
The one thing I've noticed in the few days that I've been packing the coal up to the brim and leaving the secondary wide open is the burn is definitely different.
I'll see if I can describe it.

BTW, I did relight the furnace but watching like a hawk
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:00 pm

larryfoster wrote:I did not smell any coal exhaust


Did your wife smell anything? Every time I had a draft reversal I could smell burnt matches before the CO alarms sounded. As far as I know, bit coal really stinks, and it did when I burned some. It really bothers me that no odor was reported. I'm not sure what to think of that.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: BigBarney On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:02 pm

We need standard terms so we all know what people are referring to.

No boogers, goonies or any other non understandable terms. These

could be any weight or size so no info is provided.

When listing ash give specific amount, not 1/2 ash pan amount. Maybe

by weight.

Coal added by weight so we can see if we have excessive ash,.

When these are recorded you will be able to see how much coal you need

for normal cycle burn that you can adjust for OAT. (outside air temp)

Even high winds affect the burn and more heat is usually needed so record

that if needed.

Maybe more could be added if still more info is needed.

BigBarney
BigBarney
 

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:05 pm

Did your wife smell anything? Every time I had a draft reversal I could smell burnt matches before the CO alarms sounded. As far as I know, bit coal really stinks, and it did when I burned some. It really bothers me that no odor was reported. I'm not sure what to think of that.

My wife has been doing her Sleeping Beauty routine and slept all day.
I've only seen her for about 30 seconds all day and I'm no longer her handsome prince.
This is not, necessarily, rare so I wouldn't blame it on the CO.

As I said above, my 21 YO daughter didn't recall any odors and when I got home in 10 minutes of receiving the call I didn't smell anything.
But the house was vented by then.

I appreciate your input BigBarney, but I don't have a scales for weighing.
I will get the measurement of my ash pan if that will help you.
For reference, 2 full ash pans almost fill a coal bucket.
I'm not going to weight the coal going in or the ashes going out.
It really doesn't matter.
Sorry.
I'm not trying to offend or be difficult

I did, at one time, weigh a shovelful of coal at 6.5#s.
That was nut coal.
That will vary depending on the lump size because my guy brought me unscreened coal and the lumps are from golf ball to softball sized.
I try to use as little as I can but there are fines, too.

Several hours before the alarm went off, I loaded 6 shovels full.
That would be 35-40# of, primarily, baseball sized lumps

What terms would you like me to use to refer to these fused masses?
If there are better terms, I would be glad to use them.
I don't know what they are and so I use descriptive terms.
Depending on the size, I estimate they weigh somewhere around 2-3 #s for the big ones which are softball sized or bigger.
There are some about the size of a cow patty that are @ 1#.
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:31 am

My wife said she didn't smell anything.
Don't know if I answered the question about wind.
It was a pretty calm day with little wind and temps were in the low 40s
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

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