Hotblast year 3

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:01 pm

Where any bubbles keep getting smaller that's where a leak is into the joint. Check all joints - don't stop at the first leak if you find one.

If the bubbles stay the same size, or pop as they dry out, that indicates there's no leaks. Then that's the mano you believe. ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

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Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:23 pm

I'll give that a try, Paul.
Thank you
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Fri May 05, 2017 8:40 am

Had to fire up again.
And it looks like I'll be burning for most of next week.

:cry:
No problems to report unless you count how to keep the house from getting too hot during the day.
I've discovered open windows help but not sure that should be part of regulating heat.

:?

I appreciate all the patient help and even the not so patient advice I've gotten.

After around 200 pages (years 1-3), I've come up with some preliminary conclusions.
Won't be sure until Hotblast year 4 but here they are:

Most of my issues were operational/tending errors.

The solutions SEEM to have been getting an L shaped poker and re-trying Ky Speedracer's tending methods.
The poker helps me clean better and Ky's recommendation for secondary air have given me better, more even performance.

Of course, the proof won't come until next winter because it was so late when I started.

Because the following aren't ideal they do contribute to some degree to my less than optimal results.

(In no particular order)

Draft- I will never need to worry about sucking cats or small children into my chimney, it seems to be barely adequate. Right now, my mano is .04
Paul, I did seal possible leaks so I guess I have to trust it.

Furnace-We can all agree that there are better furnaces than Hotblast but, in my case, it was a poor operator blaming his equipment.
Maybe a comparison is Harbor Freight tools to Snap on?

Coal-There's better bit out there but I still don't think my coal was the problem.
It made good heat, but I will start next season with Valier coal to conclusively know.

A few tweaks for year 4.
Fix my grates.
They do roll enough to clear the ash but there's a fair amount of slop.

Change fire bricks.
I'm thinking that 3 years is enough.

So, that's the State of the Hotblast after Year 3.
Appreciate any insights or comments.

Stay tuned for Hotblast year 4.
;)
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri May 05, 2017 9:23 am

Yr. 4 huh? Heart be still!! :) Larry, window-stats are definitely a part of it all until/if the operator figures out the fine tuning aspect of his/her stove. Callin for snow up this way come Mon. night. :o :lol:
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Fri May 05, 2017 9:40 am

Fred, of course there needs to be a Year 4.
It's almost like the Big Bang Theory or other long running tv shows.

Not sure if it should be classified as a drama or a comedy, though.

I see they're calling for a little snowy mix here, too.

Time to put coal season behind.
I want to plant a garden.

BTW, I got a new toy.
I bought a Harbor Freight 5 ton electric log splitter.
I'm too old, fat and lazy to swing a maul anymore.
(Unless I want to show my 25 yo son how it's done)

Previously, I had one of their cheaper 2 handle hydraulic splitters.

I split, maybe, 1/3 to 1/2 cord of wood in no time and it performed pretty well.
It was all poplar that I had cut last year.
Some as big as 16" in diameter.

Looking forward to trying it on some new cut oak soon
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri May 05, 2017 11:39 am

I think you may still be a bit confused about the mano and draft.

Cruising at a .04 mano reading is not bad. At these outdoor temps I would not call .04, "barely adequate". I'd say it's darned good. That .04 is very close to what many modern coal stove manufacturers call for as normal operating draft. And as I remember your chimney system could easily make higher mano readings than that during refueling with dampers more open. Which is exactly what it should be doing under those more open conditions. Plus, the draft weakens as a direct result of the out sides temps and weather. Warm, and/or, wet = weaker draft. Cold and dry = stronger draft.

Remember, this isn't a mano competition for the highest readings - it's just the opposite of that. You want to have the lowest mano reading that will produce heat. High mano readings just mean your damper settings are such that your sending more heat outdoors than you need to.

And learn to trust your mano. That U-tube type mano is a very simple, sensitive, and reliable tool when installed properly. As the saying goes, "If it was any simpler, it wouldn't work". Because of it's simplicity it is extremely reliable and accurate.

Using liquids in a "U" tube to measure very low pressures is a tried-and-true method that has been used for centuries. And that method is still the gold standard of measuring low air pressure today in many industries besides heating and cooling. Water column manos are used extensively for testing in the musical instrument and for gas flow regulation in the medical fields. Next time your in a hospital take a look at the oxygen supply regulators at the head of every hospital bed. They are manos using the same measuring scale of inches of water column.

With the help of others (who use and know mano's very well), you've been all over that mano and it's installation and tested it and corrected any problems with it's installation. So, don't doubt what the mano is telling you. Trust it and learn to use it instead of suspect it. It will help tell you minor differences in stove performance, or fuel quality, that you could only guess at before. ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Fri May 05, 2017 6:25 pm

Thanks for your comments and clarifications, Paul.

I guess that draft ain't all that bad.
Additional info.
While I was still trying to fire hard, but late in the season, my high readings were .07-.08.
That was with the MPD, primary and secondary wide open.

Since I have tried Ky Speedracer's methods, again, my MPD has always been wide open.

(Also need to put the baro back in)
If I understand, I won't have to fool with the MPD at that point al all
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri May 05, 2017 8:44 pm

larryfoster wrote:Thanks for your comments and clarifications, Paul.

I guess that draft ain't all that bad.
Additional info.
While I was still trying to fire hard, but late in the season, my high readings were .07-.08.
That was with the MPD, primary and secondary wide open.

Since I have tried Ky Speedracer's methods, again, my MPD has always been wide open.

(Also need to put the baro back in)
If I understand, I won't have to fool with the MPD at that point al all


You'll have to fool with the baro everytime you open the stove to refuel and want higher draft to get that fresh fuel going.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Fri May 05, 2017 9:03 pm

Sounds like it's more bother than it's worth
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri May 05, 2017 10:06 pm

Yes, and no. About as much work as an MPD. You have to shutoff the baro opening to get the draft higher during refueling recovery. Some cover the baro with aluminum foil. Others clip it shut with a clothes pin. Then, after you've reset the primary/secondary, you have to remember to re-enable it.

What I don't like about them is, the baro's sheet metal butterfly plate doesn't seal well when it's fully closed. The butterfly plate's edge gap on my 8 inch Field Controls is 1/8 inch all around the edge of the plate. That's equal to about 3 square inches of air leak that can affect weaker drafting chimneys.

You can try putting it back in, but watch the mano to see if it's controlling the draft steadily, or making it weaker than without the baro.

BTW, the mano probe needs to be in the section of pipe between the stove and the baro. That's so you'll be able to read what affect the baro is having on the stove. ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri May 05, 2017 10:12 pm

I keep my MPD 1/2 closed at all times--yes! even at tending. NEVER have a problem. BUT, my draft would suck the teets off a full grown cow.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Fri May 05, 2017 10:24 pm

Fred, do you also have a baro?
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri May 05, 2017 11:14 pm

Nope, had a neighbor try one on his hand fired & he removed it in a week.
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: larryfoster On: Sat May 06, 2017 10:49 am

I get the impression that some feel I'm going to Hell if I don't use one
larryfoster
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Hot Blast 1557M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous run of mine
Other Heating: Propane Kerosene

Re: Hotblast year 3

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat May 06, 2017 12:17 pm

Baro's have their place. They work better on some stoves, especially if the stove is large.

Plus, with stoves that have a strong drafting chimney system, and/or, the location is very windy, a baro can help give more consistent heat output. The sometimes tradeoff is that in certain windy conditions the butterfly plate is banging shut, which some find very annoying. When wind gusts are coming from certain angles, I can hear the plate on the baro of my furnace in the basement though out the house. The sound is carried through the ductwork even to second floor bedrooms. It's rare, but it happens.

With stoves/chimney systems in sheltered areas that show fairly consistent mano readings with an MPD, a baro won't do any better than the MPD. However, even when closed the baro will always leak room air into the chimney which lowers draft strength. The MPD being inside the pipe only works on gas flow restriction, not by leaking warmed indoors air into the pipe to control draft.

But, one place a baro should not be used is with a stove/chimney system that has marginal, or weak draft. And they should not be used with a wood stove because they will feed air to a chimney fire.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Visit Hitzer Stoves