Removing D.S. Hopper...

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 12:29 pm

mntbugy wrote:A very fine line between get heat out of stove or just shovel heat in stove
You've got that right! Now that I'm getting closer to zeroing in the D.S., I'm noticing that fine line is harder to see. The D.S. responds to the slightest changes in any, and all adjustments, including weather. Or any combination of adjustments. ........and it does it very slowly.

If I can get it zeroed in, and build a different hopper design, it might just turn out to be a nice stove after all. That being said, and knowing how finicky the D.S. is, I may get this D.S. zeroed in now, and have to start all over again with the new hopper. :lol:

It's definitely been a challenge. It started out as fun. Then got to be old. Then very old. The feed back from fellow members has helped a lot. It has sparked my interest in this stove once again.
Being a seasoned coal burner myself, it makes it easy to connect with advice given.

Now if I could only find that fine line.................


 
rberq
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300 with hopper
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Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 1:20 pm

oliver power wrote:You were right KingCoal. Closing off all the over fire air gave better draft through coal bed, and livelier fire BUT, more fuel consumption, and no more heat.
Makes no sense, unless you conclude that secondary air is burning off a lot of volatiles or CO that otherwise would go up the chimney. Volatiles might be true early on, after a shakedown and injection of new coal, but not after the whole coal bed is glowing red. CO burning into CO2 is said to be the source of blue flames, but I personally see very few blue flames for many hours after the fire has stabilized, therefore very little CO is involved. And how does this comport with the Hitzers having NO secondary air at all, yet being praised for their excellent heat output?

How are you measuring the "no more heat", when one day is 40 degrees and the next day is 5 degrees? How much are your conclusions based simply on wishful thinking (been there, done that myself already :o ).
Last edited by rberq on Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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mntbugy
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Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
Other Heating: Propain

Post by mntbugy » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 1:21 pm

pipe wide open i. e. mpd open, baro closed set at -.035 and only -.03 @ 20 degree. You are going to get screwed at 40 -50 degree or above outside air temps.
You got any leaks in in black pipe where it snaps together @ joints or chimney too short or cold chimney block ? My chimney is only 12 or 13 foot total straight up 7 foot ss pipe rest black pipe inside . It pulls -.02 @ 80 OAT (outside air temps) stove @ 175 pipe @ 100 @ thimble over fire air all open mpd wide open ,foil over baro hole. Burning nut.
Last edited by mntbugy on Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

 
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mntbugy
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Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
Other Heating: Propain

Post by mntbugy » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 1:25 pm

rberg
Same here with very little blues showing on red ash.@ low stove temps More over fire air and there they are. Red ash seems less volitile. White ash seems to have more
Should also apply to burning co to co2
Too much draft will dilute gases so they will not ignite. Throw a lite ciggerette in gasoline nothing happens
Last edited by mntbugy on Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 3:06 pm

I am still seeing a good volume of blue flames 12 hrs after tending my stove. This is while burning Gale nut coal,the Reading nut has less blue flames for less hrs & is not nearly as pretty a blue as the Gale. My stove (Crane 404) has no hopper or tubes but has constant secondary air via small holes around the fire pot. No mpd,just a baro working full time for me & is automatic too. :)
I always thought my next stove would have a hopper... now I am rethinking that idea. :gee:

 
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mntbugy
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Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
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Post by mntbugy » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 3:37 pm

I got blue ladies from October 1st to end of May, 24/7 unless it is above 60 degree

 
rberq
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Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 3:55 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:I always thought my next stove would have a hopper... now I am rethinking that idea. :gee:
Don't rethink. Twice-daily tending time, for me anyway, was vastly reduced with the hopper. It used to take me 15 minutes to nurse my Harman back to life after batch feeding, to get some flames showing so it wouldn't explode. 30 minutes on a bad day. DS Machine with hopper is about 3 minutes, and most of that is for poking from underneath to clear the grates.

Get the hopper.


 
KingCoal
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Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
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Post by KingCoal » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 3:59 pm

mntbugy wrote:I got blue ladies from October 1st to end of May, 24/7 unless it is above 60 degree
i agree, I had 24/7 blues in the stock DS 1400, the converted 1400 to base burner and now in the converted Locke #120 to base heater / double heater combo, after full time secondary installation.

 
rberq
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Location: Central Maine
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Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Anthracite Nut
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators (fuel oil); propane

Post by rberq » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 4:00 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:I am still seeing a good volume of blue flames 12 hrs after tending my stove. This is while burning Gale nut coal,the Reading nut has less blue flames for less hrs & is not nearly as pretty a blue as the Gale.
Different coal? I burned only Kimmel for several years, then a mix of Kimmel and Blaschak, now only Blaschak. I have found the Blaschak to have way less flames than Kimmel. Don't know what accounts for the difference.

 
KingCoal
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Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
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Post by KingCoal » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 4:06 pm

yes, O.P.

i took the circ. tubes out of my DS 1400.

from some of the comments I have had here on forum AND in person ( you know who you are :lol: :P :roll: ) I can't imagine you not seeing the thread of that experience.

in case you have a free moment ( or month ) you might want to read up on it here :

Box Stove to Base Heater Conversion Adventure

steve

 
rberq
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Post by rberq » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 4:14 pm

KingCoal wrote:in case you have a free moment ( or month ) you might want to read up on it here :
Box Stove to Base Heater Conversion Adventure
A month is the better estimate. :) Great thread, and I read it, but I don't remember about your experimenting with secondary air. :?: :?:

 
KingCoal
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
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Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 4:23 pm

rberq wrote:
KingCoal wrote:in case you have a free moment ( or month ) you might want to read up on it here :
Box Stove to Base Heater Conversion Adventure
A month is the better estimate. :) Great thread, and I read it, but I don't remember about your experimenting with secondary air. :?: :?:
secondary air experiments in both the original dsm 1400 and the base burner threads. should have made "chapter" headings and divisions in both of those for ease of finding stuff like this. :oops:

 
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windyhill4.2
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Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Post by windyhill4.2 » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 5:07 pm

rberq wrote:
windyhill4.2 wrote:I always thought my next stove would have a hopper... now I am rethinking that idea. :gee:
Don't rethink. Twice-daily tending time, for me anyway, was vastly reduced with the hopper. It used to take me 15 minutes to nurse my Harman back to life after batch feeding, to get some flames showing so it wouldn't explode. 30 minutes on a bad day. DS Machine with hopper is about 3 minutes, and most of that is for poking from underneath to clear the grates.

Get the hopper.
With my Crane being a supplement to the hot air from my EFM coal boiler,i do not need to worry about having it at the optimum temp after loading it full of coal. I tend my Crane 2 x/day.every 12 hrs,i empty the ash pan,reinsert the ash pan,shake,poke/slice from below only,fill the fire pot full of coal & walk away.... no booms or poofs or puffs,no explosions. The stove temp will drop off for awhile after dumping a full load of coal but is generally running around 450*-500*.

 
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oliver power
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Post by oliver power » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 5:50 pm

rberq wrote:
oliver power wrote:You were right KingCoal. Closing off all the over fire air gave better draft through coal bed, and livelier fire BUT, more fuel consumption, and no more heat.
Makes no sense, unless you conclude that secondary air is burning off a lot of volatiles or CO that otherwise would go up the chimney. Volatiles might be true early on, after a shakedown and injection of new coal, but not after the whole coal bed is glowing red. CO burning into CO2 is said to be the source of blue flames, but I personally see very few blue flames for many hours after the fire has stabilized, therefore very little CO is involved. And how does this comport with the Hitzers having NO secondary air at all, yet being praised for their excellent heat output?

How are you measuring the "no more heat", when one day is 40 degrees and the next day is 5 degrees? How much are your conclusions based simply on wishful thinking (been there, done that myself already :o ).
Well rberq, around my area, its been the same temperatures for a couple days now. The second days results show stove temp 50* cooler, yet more coal was burnt. Stack temp was the same. . if I knew the answers, I wouldn't be on here asking the questions. All I can tell you are the results I see, which are the same results KingCoal said I'd see. As far as the scientific technical stuff goes, I'll leave that up to the ones who enjoy it. I'm not one of them.

EDIT: rberq, I see why it makes no sense to you. You're talking about the burn. KingCoal and I were talking about stove results after a 12 hour burn. Ya see, we're still trying to zero in the stove itself. No doubt the burn was hotter. That's why less coal, and lower stove temp after burn. Yes rberq, you are correct.
Last edited by oliver power on Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 6:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

 
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mntbugy
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Hand Fed Coal Stove: D S 1500, Warm Moring 400
Baseburners & Antiques: Art Garland 145,GW114 ,Clarion 115, Vestal 20 Globe,New Royal22 Globe, Red Cross Oak 56,Acme Ventiduct 38,Radiant Airblast 626,Home Airblast 62,Moores #7,Moores 3way
Coal Size/Type: stove and nut and some bit
Other Heating: Propain

Post by mntbugy » Sun. Jan. 15, 2017 5:58 pm

kingcoal and o.p.
Hopper idea: make like stock one but use stamped wire mesh sheet metal. Heat and air should flow around and thru + fines would fall thru
Idea #2 make like an hour glass, top bell to fit stock hole size.
Narrow center section rectangle, square, or round. Bottom bell much bigger, wider left,right,back and front.
Must be assembled thru load door, and hung kind of like book shelf adjustable up or down till sweet spot found.
Made from stamped wire mesh sheet metal also. If it melts it will be hiding in ash pan.
Box stove to base burner is a long read all most as bad as adding secondary air


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