OUTDOOR Wood/Coal Furnaces...Seeking advice before we buy??

I was at a neighbor's place yesterday,, he has a Heatmore OWB... I had forgotten what a mess wood is.. his back yard looks like a lumber mill after a tornado. There are wood chips, hunks of bark,, big stumps, hunks of crotch-wood, and in general a huge mess all over the place..

He obviously doesn't buy cordwood,, he brings in deadfalls, wind knock-downs, and trimming logs.. But what a mess.. I hope to get back over there with my camera later today..

Greg L

I had a wood only OWB a few years ago. I was an absolute slave to that thing. I couldn't get a burn time of more than 8 hours and that was with seasoned red oak and locust. The worst part about owning on is that is is outside ( where it is cold) I hated loading that thing up at eleven at night when it was below zero and windy as all get out.

My wife pretty much demanded that I find a different heat source. She hated it as much as I did. I bet I would burn 18-20 cord a year! Lucky I found a sucker errr, guy that wanted to buy it and I couldn't sell it fast enough.

I then bought an AHS multi fuel boiler and put it inside my garage. No more freezing to death The AHS was about $2,200 cheaper than my outdoor P.O.S. and it has the oil backup/ I can now get a burn time or 28-24 hours depending on the quality of coal. And I can run out to the garage in my boxer shorts !

Yes they do make OWB that burn coal, if you REALLY have your heart set on an OWB. I know Mahoning, and Freedom OWB's burn coal.
I would suggest an INDOOR boiler, put it in some kind of outbuilding or your garage and not worry about your investment being banned in a few years....

Ok, another question... I live in western PA, inbtween Pittsburgh and Ohio--in a little town called Wampum, so I guess I am not considered NorthEastern PA, can you please list the places who sell this particular coal and what cities they are located. If any are close enough to me, maybe I will still consider getting this kind of furnace (boiler) in a shed outside. We have still not put any $$ down yet on anything. I am also not looking forward to all the work involved with wood. So how much does this coal cost approx a ton? I know when I called for prices in my area, Egg coal was about $95 a ton, lump coal was $15 more and something else was almost $200 a ton? Maybe it was this Anthracite kind??? I just don't know. Thank you all.

When you talk about your investment not being banned in a few years, do you mean outdoor furances only? Cause I got a call from a Wood gasification boiler and he was saying how I would be crazy to go with coal as they will be outlawing anything that burns coal residentially, so that would mean the companies could not sell it to us --right? I certainly hope this will never be the case. This country is crazy if they do. Is it possible they can ban coal from a outdoor boiler but not from an indoor boiler? Any articles or links you have to this kind of info ? That is pretty amazing if you can get 24 hours out of a burn!! How far is your Garage from your house? Ours is like 130 feet, up a little hill and a bend. I would love to get a furnace I could put in the garage like that (or build a shed closer to the house), only load once a day and use this kind of coal, if I can get it in this area (??) and it will always be cheaper than OIL. Plus we can still throw wood in there if we want too, right? Or does that require taking some kind of internal part out of the boiler?? Thanks

OverRunWithSons wrote:something else was almost $200 a ton? Maybe it was this Anthracite kind??? I just don't know.

That would most likely be the anthracite, again it starts around $130 a ton locally if you pick it up. If it is anthracite $200 a ton is not all that bad considering the distance.

OverRunWithSons wrote:When you talk about your investment not being banned in a few years, do you mean outdoor furances only? Cause I got a call from a Wood gasification boiler and he was saying how I would be crazy to go with coal as they will be outlawing anything that burns coal residentially, so that would mean the companies could not sell it to us --right?

To put it bluntly whoever told you that is full of *censored*, anthracite has been used for heating homes for more than a century and there is hundreds of thousands of them in this area of the state. If anything the possiblity exists for bituminous to be banned but the fact is anthracite is very clean burning fuel. It's used in residential settings, I can literally spit on my neighbors house and they'll never tell you its an issue because its simply not. They wouldn't even know that we were burning coal except for the fact we put out ashes once a week. You cannot even begin to compare it to a wood, period. There is no comparison. A OWB could never replace an anthracite coal stoker under any circumstances in residential area. That is one of the reasons for the premium price. He's just trying to sell you something by putting fear into you about the coal.

On the other hand there's been numerous articles in the local papers about towns banning the types of wood boilers that you want to install because they stink, when you burn wood you create a very prevalent odor and that's a simple fact. You need to live in an area where you do not have very close neighbors or they are very friendly, when I say close I mean if you can see their house they will be smelling your wood boiler at some points.

That is pretty amazing if you can get 24 hours out of a burn!! How far is your Garage from your house?

If you put in an anthracite stoker you're looking at about 48 hours during the coldest days of the month. Technically if you the right setup you could easily get a week out of it but that would be very expensive and you'd need a very high basement. We run ours year round for domestic hot water because its cheaper, during the summer its only once a week if that.

The quote of $200 was from a local company in my area that sells coal. Maybe it is that high since it was delivered here then? It is Not an option for us to install this in our basement or house, we must do an outide building or the garage--using an Boiler. Which probably alone would make it less effient with the underground piping, etc--right? Our house is also not that greatly insulated either. Old farm house built 1901, some insulation, not much, we use about 700 gallons of oil a winter. So how much would you say we would use in this Antricite coal a year---how many tons would get us through a winter ---using a boiler in a shed or our garage? So am I understanding this right, if you get a Anthricite coal boiler, you can NEVER burn wood in this?

OverRunWithSons wrote: So am I understanding this right, if you get a Anthricite coal boiler, you can NEVER burn wood in this?

I believe your grossly misinterpreting what a coal boiler stoker is. It automatically feeds the coal, other than putting coal in one end and taking ashes out of the other it's no different than your oil furnace. They do make hand fired boilers, i think Harman makes one. You might be able to burn wood in that or other hand fired boiler. Having said that I can truthfully say you'll never want too.

1 ton of anthracite is going to equal a minimum of 180 gallons of oil, My calculator tells me thats 3.8 tons. At most you could probably expect to use 5 tons. Even if you have to pay $300 a ton its still only $1500 a year.

OverRunWithSons wrote:Ok, another question... I live in western PA, inbtween Pittsburgh and Ohio--in a little town called Wampum,

I have been to Wampum a few times many years ago. There used to be a high performance machine shop there.
I know of two anthracite coal sources in your area. Dettinger coal and Valley Ice Co. The price for anthracite in western Pa should be around $200 a ton. If you have any questions and would like to call me on the phone let me know. I am not an expert but I have my feet wet.

OverRunWithSons wrote:When you talk about your investment not being banned in a few years, do you mean outdoor furances only? Cause I got a call from a Wood gasification boiler and he was saying how I would be crazy to go with coal as they will be outlawing anything that burns coal residentially, so that would mean the companies could not sell it to us --right? I certainly hope this will never be the case. This country is crazy if they do. Is it possible they can ban coal from a outdoor boiler but not from an indoor boiler? Any articles or links you have to this kind of info ? That is pretty amazing if you can get 24 hours out of a burn!! How far is your Garage from your house? Ours is like 130 feet, up a little hill and a bend. I would love to get a furnace I could put in the garage like that (or build a shed closer to the house), only load once a day and use this kind of coal, if I can get it in this area (??) and it will always be cheaper than OIL. Plus we can still throw wood in there if we want too, right? Or does that require taking some kind of internal part out of the boiler?? Thanks

I think you are a bit confused as to exactly what a coal stoker boiler and hand fired boiler is.
Stokers can ONLY burn anthracite coal. no wood, period. they work a bit like a pellet stove except you use coal instead of pellets. That is all I know about coal stokers. They are very, very nice and heat very well.

A hand fired ( or hand fed) boiler is just a firebox. What you put in the firebox is completley up to you. I burn mostly coal but I mix that coal with some seasoned wood to offset some of the bridging that Bituminous coal is known to do. You can burn just coal, just wood or a combination of both in a hand fired boiler. You can also burn any kind of coal in it. But not all coal is of the same quality and burn times will vary greatly... If I really pack the quality Bituminous coal in my boiiler and add some good dry locust on top of that coal, I can usually get right around a 24hr. burn time if the temp outside is 15 deg. If the temp is higher I can get longer, colder and less of a burn time......... Once the temp hits about 0 or -5 then things start to get interesting and my burn times fall quickly. -10 or -15 and I get about 8 hours if I'm lucky. But that is REALLY cold .....
There are tons of articles online about towns and counties banning OUTDOOR wood boilers ( including outdoor coal boilers, which are the same thing really, just have some grates added)
I believe the salesman that told you that coal will be banned is just that, a "Salesman" trying to make a sale...

hey build an outdoor shed and get an indoor wood coal boiler installed and run pex tubing to the house. There are two pressuirezed indoor wood coal boiler manufactures that can are real coal burners. one is marathon heater company (logwood boiler) the other is an alternate heating systems AHS (multifuel boiler). Both boilers can burn anthricite coal, bit, or wood with no problem. I have a marathon logwood and also currently in the process of getting an AHS multifuel (with Bit burning package) installed in my garage. These boilers are built heavy duty with true boiler plate and are pressurized (will not rust out) just hook the unit up correctly and be warm.

just to let you guys know in 2010 there is going to be a new emissions bill passed to try to clean up the air quality. The EPA has made coal (both anthricte and Bit) out to be a bad item for the enviroment. They are trying to ban all appliances that burn coal (yes evern stokers). All of the enviromental fags and the liberals are trying to run with global warming and emissions to scare the general public and hold the American people hostage.They want to controll the American people so you do not have a choice or an option to heat your home with. They use foreign influence (european/ UN) to give guidlines and mandates. They are trying to redistribute the wealth to other nations. This Country was founded on freedom and free trade. Coal, Tobacco, grain, oil, cotton, etc. were key staples to the American Economy. The left has attacked the Tobacco Companies, now there are chasing health care, gun companies,(fat people), Oil Companies, Coal, and where ever there is money. Vote and stop this bullcrap now.

Danzig, you have a specific source for that?

yes the emissions bill is being looped into the greenhouse gas emissions right now (the g-8 summit). also there is a caption that was posted from the usa today stating that 2010 there will be taxes to coal powered plants and coal firing products that emit green house gases. Do not be fooled by any of this this does not apply to residential heating units. The a topic on this current election is that they want to heavily tax coal and coal companies because of this (BS issue). This is also why alot of companies are not calling there wood/coal appliances duel fuel. The epa is on there butt for emissions. The epa will let them classifiy them wood or coal but not duel fuel. This new emissions policy is being rolled up with everything else. They want to curb the use of outdoor boilers and lump coal in with it. This reason is also why tarm usa does not make a wood/coal unit anymore. They have replacement grates for the old products but do not manufacture a coal unit. Believe me I am not paranoid (I am a govt. contractor that works with the state and dep on roadway projects) i hear alot through the grapevine.

I think if they try to tax or restrict coal in any way for the residential user there will be hell to pay for those lawmakers.

In last weeks newspaper was a front page article saying Maine is instituting an outdoor wood boiler buy back program. Don't call them, they'll call you. If you have one that has been the root of many neighborhood complaints the state will step in and try to get you to clean up your act. If your outdoor boiler cannot be made to run without disturbing the neighbors with smoke & smell, they will buy your boiler, up to $10,000 and force you to get a cleaner burning one, or none at all.