X-Trol Expansion Tanks

Re: X-Trol Expansion Tanks

PostBy: lzaharis On: Tue. Feb. 07, 2017 2:02 am

At the time the well collapsed we had trouble keeping water pressure in the system because there was not a constant pressure of water in the system as backflow preventers were not code in 1982.

The other thing is the house water was that was left in the system kept leaking back through the submersible pumps check valve as the system had no above ground check valves or back flow preventer as required by code now. So when ever we lost the heat we needed to add water back.

Simple works and always works well. the architects that make houses are the ones that cause problems as the new post World War II single story houses (Levittown, N.Y. slab on grade construction with buried copper pipe in the slabs is but one example) did not have basements for boilers and steel expansion tanks and they needed a way to create back pressure to have a point of no pressure change for either hot water baseboard or slab heating loops made from copper that eventually leaked and failed.

I hope that clarifies the my explanation further as I sit here enjoying the 170 degree heat running through my heating loop at 11-12 PSIG.

I have a 2 inch wide band of burning rice coal, .01-.02 HG. on the Dwyer Mark II Manometer -more when the wind is really whipping on my mountain, my steam chest is insulated with 1000 degree furnace insulation and the water temperature is consistent as I am not losing heat from an uninsulated steam chest. I have a fire that reaches the bottom of the steam chest and 2 inches of ash on the end of the grate so I have a system that works now minus the plumbers and the bad OEM controls that screwed it up.

My AA three bed stoker may have to run a little longer with 15 threads out but its not an issue for me with good boiler controls and plumbing.
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker

Re: X-Trol Expansion Tanks

PostBy: lzaharis On: Tue. Feb. 07, 2017 2:40 am

Well Izzy,you got me there..
I suppose I will consider replacing my bladder with a steel tank,then when my well drys up I can just get a bucket of water from a creek,crawl up on the roof & just dump that bucket of creek water into the steel tank below me.

Thanks for the idea,it sure will save a big headache someday. :)[/quote]

Sure thing, you can laugh all you want.

The next time you have to live without running water for 7 months because the asshat well driller says the 292 foot deep well with 92 feet of welded casing that leaks and was set in bed rock was not his fault because he claims he set the casing in bed rock.
And to find out later that he drilled through a 300 foot plus thick seam of black clay that he drilled to bottom the well in to 292 feet to get 2 gallons a minute let me know how things go at your place.

I had a 270 foot water column until the well collapsed the first time and he set the second pump above the first one and the well it collapsed again and he set the third pump below the casing where it collapsed the third and final time and if it had not been for another well driller that came up and pulled the pump that was buried in clay we would be buying water to this day.

The other well driller said that he would have redrilled the well at no charge if it was one of his drilled wells.

Last edited by lzaharis on Tue. Feb. 07, 2017 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker

Re: X-Trol Expansion Tanks

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Tue. Feb. 07, 2017 10:00 am

Shoulda used a rubber bladder expansion tank,the well would still be working fine,just check the air pressure each time you install a new tank. :)
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: X-Trol Expansion Tanks

PostBy: McGiever On: Tue. Feb. 07, 2017 11:09 am

In the well drilling business the local geology is a 'known' before the bit ever hits the dirt.

What comfort is there in getting a free second drilled well? You'd still have the same geology...or do you just 'wish' it would, might, maybe turned out different the second time around. There are prevenitive measures for bore holes that are at risk of collapse...a 4" perforated pvc sch 40 pipe liner is installed into bore hole to always allow pump to be serviced.
By your own reports, there seems a black cloud follows you around. ;)
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: X-Trol Expansion Tanks

PostBy: lzaharis On: Tue. Feb. 07, 2017 1:45 pm

Hello McGiever,

In 1982 driller asked the locals how deep thier wells were and that was the extent of checking local geology unless you had a gas well on your property.

Having become a NYSDEC certified but unregistered water well drill and pump installer taught me even more about how they screwed up my well. I would have enjoyed having a second well drilled as it would have saved another 5K in costs.

I asked him specifically if he wanted me to locate local core logs or if he could talk to the neighbors and he said I do not need to do any of that I know what I am doing.

The north side of the road has deep wells and the south side has one shallow spring or in my case the neighbors directly across from me have five 275 foot deep wells with colloidal clay in their water drilled the same year about 18 years ago.

The problem with air only rotaries that drive well casing is that they can drill and drive only so much pipe and the casing can veer off from the center line of the bore while the well is being drilled.

If the guy had a Foremost well drilling rig the casing has a drive shoe welded on it and it is rotated and sunk while the drill is drilling out the well bore and the well is fully lined with steel casing to the point where water is found and then the casing is pulled up high enough to allow a screen to be dropped in the well to permit water to enter the well bore.

Cable tool well drills drill slowly and effectively and you can use them to drill wells with mud drilling techniques allowing you to set the casing all the way to bed rock or where water is found as the drilling mud water and water bearing gravels or bed rock will flood the well to the surface and then they know they hit a water vein.

If I sell this place I am going to have to have a Foremost drill rig come in here from Buffalo after cutting down most of my beautiful 100 year old pine trees on the east side of the property to allow the drill truck and well tender truck to work as they will have to over drill the existing well with a 12 inch casing and pull the old casing and the two pumps buried in the bottom of the well to set a long screen at the water vein depth which was 292 feet.

Once all the cuttings are gone out of the well they will be able to fish out the old pumps and finish drilling the well out to water and set a 12 inch screen.

They will need to use a diverter and piping to blow all the cuttings into a roll off container to get rid of them as the well can only be accessed from the side occupied by absentee landlords pasture. I will probably have to put in culvert and a stone road to the well head and a farm gate to appease the owner to work over the well to get it right to correct the mistakes made by the other driller.

I filed a lawsuit against this driller and he cried foul and said it was not his fault. After waiting for years for the case to progress my so called attorney would not even take my calls so I said the hell with it. This driller died a few years ago and apparently I was not his only victim as he drilled a 692 foot well for a family and ended up with a dry hole. That cow he was milking was certainly milked and dried out.

In my life I have known several honest well drillers that would tell you the truth.

SO its never simple, he got away with it once more, Black Clouds yes.
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-4-1 dual fuel boiler
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: kerosene for dual fuel Keystoker