Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: Canaan coal man On: Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:49 am

dlj wrote:
KingCoal wrote:other #6 users are going to be along shortly to affirm that that stove will do 24 hrs. with little trouble with proper load and tend practice.

look up Wsherricks threads on the #6. wealth of info second to none.

steve


They only do 24 hours if you aren't cranking out the heat... I typically get about 16 hours when it's quite cold out and I'm running hot... I do tend to run a lot hotter than William does...

dj


Good so im not the only one. Thats what im seeing healthy 14-16 hour tends running 400* plus, any longer and there is risk of a lost fire.
Canaan coal man
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: A little cubby coal stove in the basement
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove And Nut

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Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: dlj On: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:02 pm

Canaan coal man wrote:
dlj wrote:They only do 24 hours if you aren't cranking out the heat... I typically get about 16 hours when it's quite cold out and I'm running hot... I do tend to run a lot hotter than William does...

dj


Good so im not the only one. Thats what im seeing healthy 14-16 hour tends running 400* plus, any longer and there is risk of a lost fire.


Yea, a very easy twice a day tend, even running full out... I used to have to make an 18 hour window fairly consistently and could do it, but that takes practice and good fire management. Kept some charcoal handy for when I didn't quite make it :oops:

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:41 pm

Canaan coal man wrote:
dlj wrote:
They only do 24 hours if you aren't cranking out the heat... I typically get about 16 hours when it's quite cold out and I'm running hot... I do tend to run a lot hotter than William does...

dj


Good so im not the only one. Thats what im seeing healthy 14-16 hour tends running 400* plus, any longer and there is risk of a lost fire.


Interestingly, that equates well with another size stove that is also a base heater in a sense.

Those numbers are about double what my range can do and the range firebox holds half the coal capacity of what my #6 can hold. I can run the range at lower temps (450-500F right over the firebox) and get about 12 hours, or push it hotter up into the 600F temps and get about 7-8 hours.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:57 pm

well we're back.

had a series of unfortunate events at the RV dealer in Golden CO. that cost me a critical 6 hrs of unintended delay starting back. so I got here at 12:30 this afternoon instead of 6 am.

10was outwhen I got here. grandson said it was out before he got home from work yesterday evening. from the looks of it, it burned down to where it wasn't keeping the flue warm enough to pull thru and ashed out.

no big deal had a fire going and the pot filled to the top of the bricks in 30 mins. currently cruising at 523,BB, 2 MPD's closed, sliver of air being maintained by the bi-metal. from 1:00 till now the house has raised 10 degrees IAT to 60.

no replacement for displacement.

steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: KingCoal On: Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:33 pm

wsherrick wrote:You can make the loading doors completely air tight with adjustment or in any case with a gasket sealer.
After awhile you will see that they planned for some small bit of leakage.
Now you will find that if you do as I suggested then you will have a base line from which to learn the stove. These things have personalities of their own let me tell you and many ways of adjusting them to do what you want in almost any given condition. That's where the genius of the design will soon impress you if it hasn't already.


now that the fire is out here i am looking back over my journal and this thread and remembered this quote.

the first thing i did with this stove is make it as air tight as i could. looking back i wonder if that was best ? everything below the grates should be as sealed up as possible in my book but, i wonder if i should have left the load door alone. when received it was terrible and the best i could do was adjust it so that all four corners closed. the mid points between wouldn't even drag on a dollar bill. :o

so, i'm wondering if i might have done better letting that door leak some and using the check damper more aggressively in combination.

thoughts,
steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: dlj On: Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:46 am

KingCoal wrote:
wsherrick wrote:You can make the loading doors completely air tight with adjustment or in any case with a gasket sealer.
After awhile you will see that they planned for some small bit of leakage.
Now you will find that if you do as I suggested then you will have a base line from which to learn the stove. These things have personalities of their own let me tell you and many ways of adjusting them to do what you want in almost any given condition. That's where the genius of the design will soon impress you if it hasn't already.


now that the fire is out here i am looking back over my journal and this thread and remembered this quote.

the first thing i did with this stove is make it as air tight as i could. looking back i wonder if that was best ? everything below the grates should be as sealed up as possible in my book but, i wonder if i should have left the load door alone. when received it was terrible and the best i could do was adjust it so that all four corners closed. the mid points between wouldn't even drag on a dollar bill. :o

so, i'm wondering if i might have done better letting that door leak some and using the check damper more aggressively in combination.

thoughts,
steve


I like things as airtight as possible. I don't like using the check damper, I like the exhaust side as tight as possible also, never know when you might get a back draft. I like not having smoke come out the back of my stove. With the base heaters, I feel you can never have too much draft. I'm sure there is a limit there, but I've never reached it on any chimney set up I've ever had, and I've had some pretty high drafting chimneys. Sorry - don't have numbers, never measured draft on any of my chimneys.

Those are my thoughts...

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: KingCoal On: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:07 am

thanks,

i have the same preferences all the way down the list with the exception that the C 40 has an ultra cool internal check damper that i don't mind using at all.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1- Warm Morning # 617A, 3-Locke Warm Morning #120, 1-Locke Warm Morning #524B
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: scalabro On: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:12 am

KingCoal wrote:thanks,

i have the same preferences all the way down the list with the exception that the C 40 has an ultra cool internal check damper that i don't mind using at all.


Haha yes! A direct path for unwanted primary air to directly connect to the stove pipe :D
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 2 Crawford 40's, PP Stewart No. 14, Abendroth Bros "Record 40"
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

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Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: joeq On: Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:25 am

dlj wrote:I like things as airtight as possible. I don't like using the check damper, I like the exhaust side as tight as possible also, never know when you might get a back draft. I like not having smoke come out the back of my stove. With the base heaters, I feel you can never have too much draft. I'm sure there is a limit there, but I've never reached it on any chimney set up I've ever had, and I've had some pretty high drafting chimneys. Sorry - don't have numbers, never measured draft on any of my chimneys.
dj

If you're referring to manometer readings DJ, I have one on my 111, (manometer), and even if my check damper is wide open, it doesn't change the reading on my manometer. Some of our members mentioned that the reason is because of the location of the check damper relative to the sensing tube location for the manometer. I'm a little blurry on that explanation, but can kinda see it. But initially I would think that bleeding off any draft down below would lessen the pull, but it doesn't appear to be the case. To be honest, I still haven't seen a need for my check damper. It always is more problematic when I forget to close it, than the benefit of it being open. Supposibly it shines when the wind is blowing, but we don't get wind that drastic here that warrants it. Still wondering about the benefits of a barometric damper installation, but haven't got the room to fit it in. (MPD is located behind the sensing tube in the photo).
Image
As for the airtight stove, the klinker and primary damper are "relatively" tight on the G111, and would think the only time this would be an issue, is if when operating the stove at a low slow burn, with primaries adjusted to their closed settings, the stove continues to operate hotter than desired. With my stove, the issue is more of the pot ashing up and choking the air down, rather than an uncontrollably hotter fire. But then again, if my fire burned lower, maybe it wouldn't ash up as quickly? Seems like a double edged sword. guess I'm still experimenting with the perfect combination of MPD, and primary air settings, and coal size, relative to the OATS, and other variables.
joeq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: G111, Southard Robertson
Stove/Furnace Make: Thermopride
Stove/Furnace Model: oil fired

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: dlj On: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:50 pm

Burning real low is an art. It all depends upon all the variables in play and each installation has to be worked with individually. My stove running down to about 200*F is pretty easy, but running down at say 150*F (using round numbers here) is a completely different ball game... I find I can do it for only certain lengths of time and then either I have to bring the fire up and make it "resettle" or let it go out. I think I can only get a week or two at that real low temp and not have to do something to perk things back up a bit...

As far as the pressure measurement, if you think about it, your chimney has a certain draft. It's based on diameter, height and outside temps (those are the main variables, not including design).

So that draft will be sucking all the air out of the stove, or sucking some air from the stove and some air from your check valve opening. It's easier to move the air through the unrestricted check valve, by the way. If it's sucking some air from the check valve opening, it's sucking less air from the stove side since the chimney only sucks a set amount of air... (man could I go off on a tangent here...) But your manometer is still measuring the same chimney...

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Apr 15, 2017 9:17 am

joeq wrote:If you're referring to manometer readings DJ, I have one on my 111, (manometer), and even if my check damper is wide open, it doesn't change the reading on my manometer. Some of our members mentioned that the reason is because of the location of the check damper relative to the sensing tube location for the manometer. I'm a little blurry on that explanation, but can kinda see it.


A reading above the fire would change.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Crawford 40 waiting in the wings

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:05 am

joeq wrote:and even if my check damper is wide open, it doesn't change the reading on my manometer. Some of our members mentioned that the reason is because of the location of the check damper relative to the sensing tube location for the manometer. I'm a little blurry on that explanation, but can kinda see it. But initially I would think that bleeding off any draft down below would lessen the pull, but it doesn't appear to be the case.


I have my own thoughts on that predicament. The way I see it, the chimney has a particular volume of gases that it can handle before any negative pressure can be satisfied. Once that volume is met, then the mano reading will fall. I see this effect when I open the load door vs adjusting secondary air. You would think the mano would fall by just opening the secondary air because it allows some of that volume to be compensated, but that's not what I see happen, the mano stays the same or increases slightly because of more heated air mass going up the chimney, an amount that doesn't exceed the volume the chimney can handle. But, when the load door is opened the chimney can't take enough volume thru the huge door opening to maintain the negative pressure (negative pressure is satisfied) so I see a drop on the mano.

Heres the kicker though. I'm using a baro which doesn't restrict volume flow thru the chimney. A MPD is total control of volume flow. By closing it, and opening air controls underneath it, you should see a change in pressure at least over the fire like Franco said. It's all a balancing act between volume of air flow, negative pressure and capacity of the chimney (which can be tweaked with the MPD). :ugeek:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Overmodified/Bored out Clayton 1537
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Awesome Size

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