COAL BIN Pics

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:24 am

Coalnewbie, I think you maybe have been looking at Gregs outside storage area. That's not where the boiler augers the coal from.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: chabbo On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:55 pm

Here is my coal bin almost all framed-out and ready for the 3/4" plywood. The dimensions are 6 feet wide by 8 feet long by 7 feet high (although the ceiling is over 9 feet heigh I am limited to a cellar window at 7 1/2 feet), with pitched floors of 45 degree angles to an auger point yet to be precisely determined until the EFM 520 arrives later this week. Any constructive criticism or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Manny

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chabbo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:55 pm

Looking good! Assuming the plywood is going on the inside I'd put it all the way to the floor on the flat walls, then on the angles ones. It looks like the front angled 2 x 4 prevents that from happening. ( see pic, arrow on blocking 2 x 4) Or... 2 x 4's cut to fit between the studs so the plywood has soemthing to nail to at the bottom.

PS... How much coal will it hold? 5-6 ton? I'm about to follow your lead.
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Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined


Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: chabbo On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:11 pm

Freddy:

Thanks. I plan on laying the plywood on the pitched floors first, then I will do the walls. I don't want have any coal dust falling through the edges if I did the walls first. It is taking me longer and more material than I thought to get to this point, but I keep shoring it up every chance I get. I used concrete screws to fasten the framing to the concrete floors, and I used 4" lag screws to fasten the framing to my first floor floor joists. It feels sturdy, I am not sure just how sturdy it has to be to hold the coal, so I am using a lot of screws and wood for support. Like my father says (and his father before him), material is cheap, it is the labor that is expensive. Since I am not paying anything for the labor, I thought I would put a little more material into it. I figure somewhere between 5-6 tons of coal, depending if I can get it to 7 feet high (6.5 tons) or 6 feet (5.4 tons).

Good luck Freddy and thanks for the input.

Manny
chabbo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:37 pm

Mu opinion is if you can provide a complete hopper its really not worth the effort to put in the angles. you need them on all four sides and the the bottom edge of the angle has to be above the worm instead of flat with the ground.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: chabbo On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:29 pm

Richard:

I am sorry but I do not follow you. What do you mean by a complete hopper -- a 55 gallon drum? The way I see it, it does take some time to fiddle with the angles, but it is only done once in a lifetime, and you get the benefits of it for life. I can't see having to load coal in a barrell or other container every few days (might be ok if I were retired), not when there is a reasonable alternative available.

JMO, but I am sure that reasoble men differ on this.

Manny
chabbo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:41 pm

I think what Richard is saying is, skip the angles and let the coal make them. There will be a tonof coal that you never get to unless you rake, but it would work just fine. Axeman anderson manual shows both ways. With two angles you'll have a small amount of coal that can't get to the auger, no big deal. The bin above the worm would be the only way to get every last drop by gravity. That would be, build the entire bin 6 or 8 inches off the floor and have the worm below the floor.
I'm going to have two angles and a doghouse will make a third angle. If the auger gets clogged I'll be able to reach in the dog house & fiddle with it.

Ohh, I see what you mean, angle plywood first, then the wall will sit ON the angle. That'll work.

"If there's not time to do it right, there's always time to do it over."
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:20 pm

Unless you have the angles on all sides you're still going to have a lot of dead space. Wherever the auger is you can draw a 45 drgeee cone from that spot and any coal on the outside of the cone is not going onto the worm. If for example the worm is below the angle you're going to have a few inches of coal laying on the .

You need a shape like this, thae angles have to go at 45 degress all the way to the wall. If build it like this you won't ever have to touch a piece of coal:
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Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:32 pm

Richard wrote:If build it like this you won't ever have to touch a piece of coal:


That would be sweet! Now... how high off the floor would that point have to be for pea coal, and how large a hole allows the right amount of coal to the auger, but doesn't allow all the coal to flow out?
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:22 pm

You only have to have it as high as the auger, You have to inverse the 45 and make sure you had enough to full cover the auger. You could enclose it too. The pile will not be all that big.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: chabbo On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:33 pm

In my design of the coal bin, there will be a 2' x 2' area of the floor that is not on a 45 degree angle where the auger end and worm will be located. Any dead space will be minimized to that. So, Richard, in you diagram, my point will consist of a 2 s 2 foot area on concrete floor surrounded by a floor angled at 45 degrees to that area.

Any thought on how strong those floors have to be to hold the 5-6 tons of coal? I am trying to confirm that 2x4 framing 12" OC is sufficient, utilizing 3/4 inch plywood. Anyone have any experience in this type of coal bin utilizing 45 degree angled floors?

Manny
chabbo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 8:58 pm

chabbo wrote:confirm that 2x4 framing 12" OC is sufficient, utilizing 3/4 inch plywood


I personally guarantee you'll be fine, granting the pinning to the concrete holds and the studs hold to the footers. If the 2 x 4's break and the plywood fails, you contact me and I will send you a check for the price of the wood. How's that for confirmation?

You will have about 210 pounds per sq foot by the math. You have plenty of strength for that. I have no feel for how much "outpush" the coal has though. Where the wall plywood comes down onto the angle, if it bows the walls 3/4" you will have a crack there. I don't think you'll have that problem as long as the studs are very secure to the footings. Hmmm... if the wall plywood went to the floor as I first mentioned, then you'd have the strength of the plywood ON the footer. Also, if any dust leaked, it's in a closed dead space anyway.

I'd like to hear other opinions too!
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: chabbo On: Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:09 pm

Freddy:

You know, I thought of that Freddy, whether the studs hold to the footers. I thought of running a 2 x4 along the base of the footers standing up using the 2' side as the base and scewing it into the footers along the floor. Kind or like a T or rather L construction in this case. That should help with that issue, and I will likely do the same for the headers. Got to believe that this is overkill, but I would rather be safe then sorry. If all else fails, I will have a mason use concrete blocks to construct the outer shell.

Manny
chabbo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:29 am

chabbo wrote:I thought of running a 2 x4 along the base of the footers standing up using the 2' side as the base and scewing it into the footers along the floor.


That's what my dad did, then he drove a few 1/2 inch steel tent spikes into the concrete (pre-drilled of course) behind them leaving about 3 inches sticking up so the 2x4 could push up against them. Every bin I have seen break has broken on the bottom. Most of them while in the damn thing.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: COAL BIN Pics

PostBy: Freddy On: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:28 am

(Another Dad quote) "For extra strength and added beauty" on the outside of the bin nail another two by to the floor and nail a 2 by on top of that one to catch the studs.

Ya know... Thinking about what Richard just said, every one that lets go is at the base..... The concrete nails that you used, I thought you said, but now can't find it, they were put in with a "Ramset"? A bullet cartridge fires them in? I see a few are sticking up. I have done just enough demolition to know that som eof them hold unmercifully, others bend at the 2 x 4 & slide right out. Maybe Richard has a good idea. The outside 2 x 4 that I just suggested, I think I'd drill and put in 1/2" concrete bolts. Don't use the ones with lead sleeves, they make some with a thin sheild on a slightly tapered shaft that grab real well. Yup, bolt that puppy down & add a 2 by 4 on top of it, she'll be there til cows go to the moon.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined