Draft inducer and mounting it

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:40 am

All looks well with the pipe & baro.

How about the fresh-air available to the AA? I am curious if there is fresh air available to the basement, or if the Axeman just sucks air from the rest of the house.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy


Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:19 pm

Rob,

Its a typical old farmhouse basement. Bilco doors on either end. Wooden interior doors that have huge gaps around them. Plus we do have a casement window on the west end and 2 on the east side that we can open as needed to ventilate if/when there is a high CO reading.



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:23 pm

I guess we will wait and see what your chimney guy says. All it takes is a bee's nest, or some old flyash to start peeling off in a sheet to cause an obstruction.

Seems like the setup you have should work fine if the chimney is clear.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:34 pm

One more question - can you take a draft reading between the inducer and the thimble ?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:30 pm

Rick, did your chimney guy come?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:00 am

Rob R. wrote:Rick, did your chimney guy come?


Sorry got busy with the so called "Blizzard" that never materialized here !!! :mad:

Yes the chimney guy showed up said there was a lot of fly ash in the chimney clinging to the walls. So after several attempts at brushing it away, he reported that the chimney is fine. He said he was concerned a little with the moisture in the chimney. But there was no serious scaling of the liner and no pieces of it flaking off. said the joints looked fine as well. He thinks it may be the coal we are burning. He stated that the coal we got nowadays is not like the coal we used to get. Huh ?????

Anyhow, after getting everything put back together, I turned the boiler back on. Both sides of the house had chilled off quite a bit so it ran for some time to get everything back up to temp. Tuesday night I went down to check on it and found this clinker hanging on the end of the ash tray.

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It was about 1 1/2" thick. After removing that huge clinker and a few others hanging around the edge of the ash tray, I noticed something hanging fro the bottom of the cyclonic tube. It looked almost like some creosote that had flaked off. This is a brand new cyclonic tube. I did not use much wood when I started it back up after the replumbing. Anyhow after removing several pieces of the creosote type material, I poked up through the hole and a large amount of fines/fly ash came pouring out the tube..................... I would estimate close to 1 pint or more poured down onto the ash tray. Could this have been part of the problem ??


Anyhow since the cleaning and due to the low temps, I am not using the inducer at this time. I seem to have an adequate draft without it running. Most times it is reading -.04 when firing and maintaining -.01 to -.02 at idle. I'll have to keep checking it when the temps warm back up next week.

In addition, I also bought a handheld CO detector in case we start getting CO reading back in the house.
https://sensorcon.com/products/inspecto ... 4193484932


And for CS, here is 2 pics of the exterior chimney taken a few days ago.

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Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:13 am

That chimney should draft well, I just don't get it. Can you check the draft with the Bilco open just to see if it changes it?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:14 am

I didn't open the Bilco but I did open the 12" x 24" casement window with it stoking last night with no noticeable change in the draft. It read -.05 stoking and -.015 at idle. Baro is just getting ready to open at full burn .

On another note, I may have created a monster........ the spousal unit is finally getting interested in the entire operation of the AA. She wants to be able to use and diagnose problems if I happen to be off hunting or snowmobiling. Good and bad.... She now questions everything. Last night she was concerned with the lack of ash dropping into the pan. After explaining how that large clinker held back the ash, and by me removing it and some other larger clumps, it would take some time for the ash to start dropping into the pan. So now she is finally taking notice of the ashing solenoid and the movement or non moving of the ashing lever.



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work


Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:36 am

I think you have solved the problem. Time will tell.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:06 pm

Well yes time indeed has told the tale......

After several weeks of flawless performance and no CO issues at all, the outdoor temps soared yesterday. We were at my grandson's LAX game when the SIL called about 4:15 stating the CO alarms were going off on her side of the house with readings of 75+. Of course she's somewhat panicked since the cat is in the basement. And when she opened the first floor windows, the CO went up the stairs triggering that alarm and then finally the one outside her bedroom. After instructing her to open the Bilco doors on each side on the basement and to turn on the 20" fan down there and also to open the 2nd floor windows, it cleared the CO out in about 45 minutes. We also had her turn up her thermostat as a call for heat should make the AA fire again thereby creating draft again in the chimney. Problem solved ????

When we got back home around 9:00 everything was fine. I then gave her a crash course on Coal Heat 101. Explained how draft is created, how wind affects it, how quick outdoor temps affect it, etc. Then moved on to the difference between her Alaska Cast Console vs an AA 260 and the size of the burn pot and amount of coal still burning in the AA after a power loss or no call for heat. Hopefully she now understands !!! My wife and the inlaws (while they were alive) all have been dealing with the sudden temp swings and CO issues for over 25 years. SIL never had issues with her Cast Console, No kidding, they are 2 different animals...

SIL's big concern is if we would have and draft issues while we are all at work during the week since no one is here during the day anymore. So if we see higher temps forecasted, I will just turn the draft inducer on before I leave for work until we get this dialed in.



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:01 am

If it were mine, I would run a timer on it like Axeman recommends, and remove the baro.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: northernmainecoal On: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:53 am

seal off the baro just to see what happens
northernmainecoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 30-95
Baseburners & Antiques: Herald Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Nut/Stove

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:14 am

You could put 2" foil board on the 3 sides of the chimney under the porch & stucco to match. That would help to keep the chimney from getting cold.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:02 am

Rob R. wrote:If it were mine, I would run a timer on it like Axeman recommends, and remove the baro.




Rob and others,

I do not have a "dump zone" wired in, so running a timer may not work too well. Although I guess I could wire something in. The boiler currently shuts off around 175* and on a no heat call, will rise over 200* and in these warm temp days could possibly remain there for several hours. Me and the wife have dealt with this "CO in the spring" forever. It is not a big deal for us. Of course I have been spraying automotive paint and the associated additives in it for decades. So my thinking may be a little clouded. Her and I know that every spring we deal with the up and down temps and will open a basement window if we see problems looming with the swinging temps. That was why I installed the draft inducer when I replaced the exhaust piping to the wall.

SIL on the other hand has never dealt with anything like this. She NEVER took part in any maintenance or workings of the farm house. She lived in the "tenant house" across the driveway and more or less lived in her own little world over there. Everything was done for her by my father in law or me as directed by him. Her golden retriever is like a child to her and GOD forbid if something would happen to the dog...........We tried to talk her out of putting the cat in the basement to no avail.

As I said, I gave her a lesson on how a coal boiler works and the inherent issue of having several lbs of burning coal sitting there heating the water waiting for a call for heat. It is way different than her Alaska stoker and oil burner hydronic setup. I had to start by first explaining how and when CO is created in the burning process. And that you just don't stop coal from emitting CO unless you stop the coal burning process !!!!

I do have the manometer hooked into the pipes and can monitor it. The wife is starting to understand the workings of the boiler so she knows how to check things as well. I've even explained the operation of the draft inducer to her. However I will not show that to the SIL or she will run it 24/7/365.


NMC - we can't foil over the baro due to the high winds we get on the property. We have fields on either side of the house which allow the winds to howl at times.

WH - the chimney is already covered by 2 layers of stucco. I guess we could possibly install foam board and restucco, but unless there is a guarantee, the SIL will not want to pay for it. I already heard a ton of crap when she thought that by having the chimney cleaned, all prior issues would have been resolved. She's blonde and sometimes it takes a while for her to understand.




Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: Draft inducer and mounting it

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:55 am

Rick, does your 260 have a separate aquastat for a high limit control?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy