First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:19 am

scalabro wrote:I'd remove the air conditioner out of the window as a first step.


That's a big 10-4. No sense heating the outside.

A lot of radiant heat from the stove is going straight into those windows.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

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Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: coalfan On: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:22 am

plastic on the window in pic !!! any more or are they all singls pain you have a lot to look at !!
coalfan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: handfed coal stove
Coal Size/Type: nut/ pea ant.some bit.
Stove/Furnace Model: ds circulator/1500 sl/wh.

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:55 am

The house is single level...

To me that means no basement & a cold concrete slab that sucks BTU'S out as fast as open windows.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: titleist1 On: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:28 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:To me that means no basement & a cold concrete slab that sucks BTU'S out as fast as open windows.


It looked like a wood subfloor in the pic next to the stove where the tear is so I was thinking it has a basement. Although that may be linoleum that looks like wood. jr84...can you clarify for us nosy types? :)

I think you have a lot of potential insulation upgrades to get better heat retention there! Do you have plans to rehab it? How much draft comes through your wall outlets, that may give a clue on the wall insulation.

I suggest putting a 'T' with a cap where your 90* is on the flue pipe so you can clean that horizontal section easier. Easier to clean makes it more likely to be done more often (at least for me!). :idea:
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: jrouse84 On: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:14 am

It has a crawl space about 3' deep. 1-2 blocks above ground the rest is dug out and on concrete footer. I haven't checked air in the outlets honestly. The past few days it's been doing better however I have just left the T-stat on low and let it be what it is. Previously I had been turning it up at night about 1/2 of a number and back down in the morning. I shake it around 630am and then again before bed. So around 8-10 at night as well. Floor is wood with really old linoleum (in places where it has yet to come up lol). We didn't have time to do any work to the back room whatsoever.
jrouse84
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Circluator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:11 pm

Slow down that window fan...rapid air currents hasten overall heat losses at every location along the rapid air current's path.

Advise you to go back to the fan being on the floor again and at the opposite end away from stove and keep it on low speed and be patient for the slow sucsessfull results. :)

See my signature below. ;)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:11 pm

A very simple test. Take a 1 foot piece of toilet paper and tape one edge to the upper door jamb so about 10 inches hangs in door way opening. Do this for every room that has a door. It will tell you direction of air flow and how horizontal the TP is will tell you how much. Yes it is crude and very simple but cuts to the chase pretty quick. Just be patient between changes to see the new flow pattern, maybe a half hour before making a decision. It worked in my house and a lot of things that sounded good did not work.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: jrouse84 On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:34 am

I will try the suggestions. One other thing, when it is around 20 degrees outside, what temperature is your stove running? I would assume that is around the half of the possible output mark or running it half output possibly. I am trying to compare my temps. Where do you normally measure stove temperature when you refer to it? On the top? If so I assume not directly over the hopper as the temperature likely won't be as hot there. I have saw the top of my door in 1 specific spot run equally as hot as the top, possibly a little hotter. Just curious.
jrouse84
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Circluator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

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Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: oliver power On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:35 am

jrouse84,

You're doing good by setting, and forgetting. Let the stove be what it is. The D.S. is a very slow stove to respond. Now that you have that part down, try the following as mentioned:

1.) Seal between stove pipe, and chimney flue.
2.) slow the box fan down if possible.
3.) Pull the air conditioner.

Also try this:

1.) set the chimney draft at -.04 (I found a barometric damper works well with the D.S.). Believe me, I went back, and fourth between manual pipe damper, and barometric damper. The barometric damper, set at -.04 seems to work best. The barometric damper gives the D.S. slow, full flow exhaust, which it likes.

2.) Pull that hopper out. Set it aside for now. You can always put it back in.
With the hopper out, plug all but 2 or 3 over fire air holes. Simply drop bolts in the holes. So what if a little air seeps around the bolt. I found running my D.S. without the hopper was quite an improvement. Direct heat from the coal bed, to the circulator tubes is what you want. That doesn't happen with the hopper in the way.

3.) With a GOOD HOT FIRE, dump in half a 5 gallon pail of coal through the hopper door (probably less for 1300 model). Now close the hopper door, and let it be. Yes, a hot spot is nice. Or you can stand around, and build up the fire bed. However, a good hot fire to start with is all it needs.

.........and keep us informed. I'm especially curious to know how your 1300 performs with NO HOPPER. My 1600 performs much better without the hopper. The heat reaches all circulator tubes equally. The hopper is no longer in the way. Yet, it has no problem going 12+ hours between tendings.

4.) I re-read your original post. I believe you said your stove body was running 300* - 325*, with a stack temp of 175* just above the stove. That's a 150* difference between stove body temp, and stack temp.
Measuring at the same places, my D.S. 1600 shows at least double of 150*. I'm going out to the shop shortly. I'll write down my numbers, and post them here.

Edit: I'm back from the shop. With a 15 hour burn, the difference in temperature between stove, and stack is 275*. Still had a good bed of glowing coals. I tended the stove. Once the stove settled in, the stove temp was 450*, with stack temp of 125*. A difference of 325*. So there you have it. My D.S. is running at twice the efficiency of your D.S. ..........and it's a lot bigger stove.
Last edited by oliver power on Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:31 pm, edited 6 times in total.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: Freddy On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:56 am

Barometric damper vrs no barometric damper:

OK... 120 degree leaving the stove with no damper ( probably hotter inside the pipe). With a damper, room air leaving...75 degrees.

Without damper: the harder the wind blows, the more 120 degree air leaves. With barometric damper: more 75 degree air leaves.

Without damper: the higher the draft, the hotter the stove runs. With a damper, the stove stays at whatever you ask it too because the draft stays the same. Hotter stove means hotter room the stove is in, means more heat loss through walls & ceiling.

Side question: Do you have CO detectors? If not, get one (or two) today! TODAY! Thank you.

PS, I loved the mention of "gold ball" size coal. I'm assuming your chunks of gold are the size of golf balls? Mine are much, much smaller. ;)
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: jrouse84 On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:26 pm

Yes..that was supposed to be gold ball...lol. I was on my phone most likely when i typed that one. It really has a mind of its own. I will try and take the hopper out and see what that does. How hard is it to tend the stove with no hopper? In the mornings i have very little time to tend to it. I shake, fill and go. Normally it doesnt cover up all of the hot coals so i dont have to worry about puff backs. Is it easier or harder with the hopper removed? Also i dont have a coal bucket/hod yet. I have just been dumping the bags in the hopper. I guess i will have to round up a bucket and shovel in a pinch and try that.

Regarding the baro damper.... i have read lots of yes and no on those. Lots of yes and no on any damper for that matter with coal stoves and the auto regulators now days. Is there any downsides to baro dampers? Fire risks, etc? I heard some puff backs can blow the whole baro unit off..yikes...lol. Wouldn't want that for sure. Maybe they were just noobs..ha! Havent had any puff backs since the first few days, so i think i made it past my noob stage hopefully.

Yes i have co2 detectors. I have one in the stove room and one in-between the 2 bedrooms (the bedrooms are side by side). Also smoke alarm in stove room and in same place between bedrooms again.

I'll do some research on the baro dampers. I cant say i have ever even saw one for sale around here.
jrouse84
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Circluator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: oliver power On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:15 pm

When burning coal, no down side to barometric dampers. Just not necessary in some stoves. You see many different opinions of dampers. The reason is; different stoves, set-ups, and locations. Different strokes, for different folks. We're talking about the D.S. Circulator here. The D.S. Circulator likes the barometric damper. The D.S. owner's manual suggests -.06 draft. When pulling the hopper, -.04 is plenty.

Another good part of the barometric damper is; you don't have to open, and close it, like you would a manual damper. Just forget it's there. When installing the barometric damper, install it close to the stove, facing the wall behind the stove. Otherwise, you'll be taking heat from the top of the stove, and sending it up the chimney. Always use the "one door open at a time" rule.

All sections of pipe, including the barometric damper, should be screwed together, using three screws per joint.

No extra work tending the stove without the hopper. Nothing changes, other than no hopper to top off. You'll dump in about 20 pounds of coal (1/2 of 5 gallon pail) through the hopper door. In other words, fill to top of fire brick. Leave 3 of the over fire air holes open. Drop bolts in the other holes. This will prevent any puff backs, as long as stove doors are closed. You may get a small puff back if the ash pan door is open. So, after dumping in fresh coal, close all doors, and walk away. Let the stove do its thing.

NO DOUBT, the D.S. Circulator stove has a mind of it's own. Pulling the hopper will straighten that out. It did on mine anyways. Now it listens to what I say. :lol:

For 1-1/2 years, I wasn't sure if I were running the stove, or it were running me. With the help of fellow members, I'd get close to figuring the D.S. out. Then, like you said, it has a mind of it's own. One little glitch in the weather, and everything changed.

Finally, I pulled the hopper. It was like sending the stove to obedience school. It actually turned out to be a good stove. She's been running nice ever since.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: jrouse84 On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:09 pm

I will definitely give that a try. One last concern regarding the hopper. I am a little concerned it will be too far burnt down to fill it in a timely manner in the mornings. On cold days it burns the hopper during my work schedule. I filled it around 6am. And it's 9pm now and it was just to the bottom of the hopper and hopper is empty. It was just the fire box left. Thoughts on that? It was a fairly cold day and stove was set on around 50% on the thermostat on the back.adter I shook it of course. So if that's the case, how would in need to tend it then?
Last edited by jrouse84 on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
jrouse84
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Circluator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: jrouse84 On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:15 pm

Here is my fan btw. It's about 30-40% covered up as it's not completely in the doorway. Just FYI as to ppl saying slow it down. It's fairly restricted. I could move it more and get it a little slower. I will try more suggestions this weekend when I'm off work. I don't like making changes and not being able to watch and see how it affects the stove and temperature of the house. Wife and kids are there after me in the morning and home before me in the evening. I know this works, just uses a lot of coal. Lol. I will change it up Thursday and see how no hopper and a fan moved to the opposite end of the house on the floor does.
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jrouse84
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: D.S. Circluator
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: First year coal user. Question about maximum heat possibili

PostBy: oliver power On: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:02 pm

jrouse84 wrote:I will definitely give that a try. One last concern regarding the hopper. I am a little concerned it will be too far burnt down to fill it in a timely manner in the mornings. On cold days it burns the hopper during my work schedule. I filled it around 6am. And it's 9pm now and it was just to the bottom of the hopper and hopper is empty. It was just the fire box left. Thoughts on that? It was a fairly cold day and stove was set on around 50% on the thermostat on the back.adter I shook it of course. So if that's the case, how would in need to tend it then?
The same way you just got through tending it. Empty the ashes from the previous shaking. Brighten up the fire IF NEEDED, by opening the ash pan door. Close ash pan door, and open hopper door. Fill to top of fire brick, mounding up in the middle, and close hopper door. Let it be...........

Here's what you're not quite grasping.
1.) With the chimney draft set at -.04, your heat is not racing up the chimney. It is staying in the stove. Going by my D.S. results, you have twice the heat going up your chimney as I do. And I have twice the stove.

2.) With the hopper out of the way, heat from the coal bed is in direct contact with all heat exchanger tubes. This allows the heat exchanger tubes to transfer more heat, more efficiently. Also, radiant heat will be coming off the top of the stove where the hopper would normally be blocking.

This all adds up to more heat going into your house, and not up the chimney. If more heat goes into the house, the stoves thermostat gets satisfied sooner. You may actually burn less coal. Or, at least feel more comfortable.

You should have the same depth fire box as me. I'm thinking it should go 12+ hours with no problem. My D.S. just did an easy 15 hour burn last night. Still had lots of coal left in the fire box.

There's nothing wrong with burning the coal in the fire box itself. That's supposed to happen. The hopper simply extends the burn time. However, if the hopper is hindering the performance, it's time to get rid of it. At least you can take advantage of the built in baffle, and hopper door. I'm sure it's not the first poor design out there.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II), D.S. 1600 Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)

Visit Hitzer Stoves