Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: skobydog On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 11:33 am

I've been piecing together a boiler system over the past couple of years. For now I just want to use the 3/4" manifolds and zone valves I already have (pics) and will expand later.

I'm pumping to the boiler because it will be easier for installation and no other reason.

I'm trying to figure out what else I may need or could improve on.

Questions:

Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?

Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).

Initial boiler fast fill/purge - Will Webstone 48615 work in this configuration?

Bleeding individual zones - Will the current individual purge valves work?

Air eliminator valves - One on each return zone and one above air scoop - Enough?

Temperature Gauges - Placement ok? Do I need any additional ones?

Unions (black malleable) - Any reason to not use them or is there a place where I should? (i have a few free ones around)

Am I missing any significant shut off valves?

Any suggestions on improvements or what else I may need would be helpful
Attachments
000000001 Supply.jpg
(59.2 KiB) Viewed 46 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]79974[/nepathumb]
0000000001 Return.jpg
(51.79 KiB) Viewed 31 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]79975[/nepathumb]
upload.jpg
(81.32 KiB) Viewed 23 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]79976[/nepathumb]
skobydog
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite


Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: BigBarney On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 12:20 pm

In the first drawing I don't see any pumps and the bypass loop is not connected to

anything.

BigBarney
BigBarney
 

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 5:18 pm

Hopefully others will follow and share their thoughts as well...

skobydog wrote:
Questions:

Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?

commonly enter @ bladder tank location

Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).

?

Initial boiler fast fill/purge - Will Webstone 48615 work in this configuration?

Work, but there are cheaper ways...


Bleeding individual zones - Will the current individual purge valves work?

Yes

Air eliminator valves - One on each return zone and one above air scoop - Enough?

Good. Doing power purge gets the bulk of the air out. You might look at Spirovent Types for micro bubble removal.


Temperature Gauges - Placement ok? Do I need any additional ones?

Your choice...

Unions (black malleable) - Any reason to not use them or is there a place where I should? (i have a few free ones around)

They are excellent...put them anywhere you wouldn't want to use a hacksaw later to take pipe apart.

Am I missing any significant shut off valves?

No

Any suggestions on improvements or what else I may need would be helpful.

Wye strainer before the pumps.


McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: StokerDon On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 7:41 pm

skobydog wrote:Questions:

Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?

Unless you are going to use an auto fill valve, I would skip the pressure reducer as it will make power purging the system or a zone impossible. Water supply connects to the bottom of the air scoop with the expansion tank.

skobydog wrote:Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).

If all of your zones have zone valves, then, no.

skobydog wrote:Air eliminator valves - One on each return zone and one above air scoop - Enough?

That should be enough.

skobydog wrote:Temperature Gauges - Placement ok? Do I need any additional ones?

You don't "need" any, the tridicator on the boiler is enough. I like to put one in the supply and one in the return were all the zones come back together.

skobydog wrote:Unions (black malleable) - Any reason to not use them or is there a place where I should? (i have a few free ones around)

Yes, black iron is probably the best thing to use.

skobydog wrote:Am I missing any significant shut off valves?

On your drawing, before and after the air scoop, in case you nee to isolate the boiler or a zone. One on the expansion tank, in case you need to replace it.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: BairMatic BMC-500 with Van Wert VA400 Stoker, Gentleman Janitor GJ-671/EFM S-15 stoker, Van Wert VA-600
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: skobydog On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 7:49 pm

Questions:

Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?
commonly enter @ bladder tank location
001.jpg
(17.83 KiB) Viewed 2 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]79989[/nepathumb]


Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).
?
I asked because some circulators have inline check valves.

Initial boiler fast fill/purge - Will Webstone 48615 work in this configuration?
Work, but there are cheaper ways...
Something like this with a hose on the boiler drain?
002.jpg
(16.96 KiB) Viewed 6 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]79990[/nepathumb]


Any suggestions on improvements or what else I may need would be helpful.
Wye strainer before the pumps.
Not sure I understand this.
skobydog
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: skobydog On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 8:12 pm

StokerDon wrote:
Unless you are going to use an auto fill valve, I would skip the pressure reducer as it will make power purging the system or a zone impossible. Water supply connects to the bottom of the air scoop with the expansion tank.

-Don


002.jpg
(16.96 KiB) Viewed 6 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]79991[/nepathumb]


StokerDon wrote:
On your drawing, before and after the air scoop, in case you nee to isolate the boiler or a zone. One on the expansion tank, in case you need to replace it.

-Don


Ok, good points, thanks
Last edited by skobydog on Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
skobydog
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 8:15 pm

There are PRV (pressure reducing valves) w/ a flip handle just for purging and then flip back for normal PRV use. ;)

Wye strainer passes all water through a fine mesh screen (strainer). This collects particals of rust often present in used boilers that commonly sit stored for a time from collecting these particles in a pump rotor or elsewhere.
Last edited by McGiever on Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: skobydog On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 8:21 pm

McGiever wrote:There are PRV (pressure reducing valves) w/ a flip handle just for purging and then flip back for normal PRV use. ;)


ok.....still not sure the purpose of the wye though
skobydog
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite


Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: StokerDon On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 8:23 pm

Your Tee at the expansion tank for the water supply is perfect.

Your idea of bypassing the pressure reducer/fill valve with a single ball valve will work for power purging.

A wye strainer is basically a filter stuck into a "Y" connection. Keeps crap from reaching your pump.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: BairMatic BMC-500 with Van Wert VA400 Stoker, Gentleman Janitor GJ-671/EFM S-15 stoker, Van Wert VA-600
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 10:15 pm

An end of the wye allows you to remove the screen to clean it.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-037911 ... DQodBnYFKg
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue. Mar. 14, 2017 5:41 am

McGiever wrote:There are PRV (pressure reducing valves) w/ a flip handle just for purging and then flip back for normal PRV use. ;)

Wye strainer passes all water through a fine mesh screen (strainer). This collects particals of rust often present in used boilers that commonly sit stored for a time from collecting these particles in a pump rotor or elsewhere.


The fast fill valve on the Taco and B&G autofill valves I have used has been fine. If you need a more serious power purge, I have also connected a garden hose to a boiler drain in the appropriate location - this gives you instant full-pressure water for purging. If you pipe the system correctly, air removal is only done once.

I have never used a Wye strainer, but I think it is a good idea. At some point we will all be running ECM circulators, and they don't like debris. That brings up a good point - is the plan to use that 007 Taco? If so, you will may get some velocity noise in the system without a pressure differential valve (it allows some of the volume from the pump to return to the boiler, rather than trying to force it through a single zone). I had that issue with my own system, and decided to upgrade to a "smart" circulator. It has performed very well for me.

Grundfos Alpha Installed
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation

PostBy: skobydog On: Tue. Mar. 14, 2017 9:40 am

coaledsweat wrote:An end of the wye allows you to remove the screen to clean it.

http://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-037911 ... DQodBnYFKg
Got it now, thanks

Rob R. wrote: That brings up a good point - is the plan to use that 007 Taco? If so, you will may get some velocity noise in the system without a pressure differential valve (it allows some of the volume from the pump to return to the boiler, rather than trying to force it through a single zone). I had that issue with my own system, and decided to upgrade to a "smart" circulator. It has performed very well for me.

Grundfos Alpha Installed

I have a number of heating configurations I want to try but I believe the 007 will probably be an overkill until I'm through burning nut coal upstairs. If this happens I'll probably skip the pressure differential valve and look into a smart pump. Probably better off with a newer pump anyway.
skobydog
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite