Help/Suggestions With Boiler Design/Installation
- skobydog
- Member
- Posts: 275
- Joined: Mon. Jun. 10, 2013 9:53 am
- Location: Greenfield MA
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite
I've been piecing together a boiler system over the past couple of years. For now I just want to use the 3/4" manifolds and zone valves I already have (pics) and will expand later.
I'm pumping to the boiler because it will be easier for installation and no other reason.
I'm trying to figure out what else I may need or could improve on.
Questions:
Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?
Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).
Initial boiler fast fill/purge - Will Webstone 48615 work in this configuration?
Bleeding individual zones - Will the current individual purge valves work?
Air eliminator valves - One on each return zone and one above air scoop - Enough?
Temperature Gauges - Placement ok? Do I need any additional ones?
Unions (black malleable) - Any reason to not use them or is there a place where I should? (i have a few free ones around)
Am I missing any significant shut off valves?
Any suggestions on improvements or what else I may need would be helpful
I'm pumping to the boiler because it will be easier for installation and no other reason.
I'm trying to figure out what else I may need or could improve on.
Questions:
Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?
Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).
Initial boiler fast fill/purge - Will Webstone 48615 work in this configuration?
Bleeding individual zones - Will the current individual purge valves work?
Air eliminator valves - One on each return zone and one above air scoop - Enough?
Temperature Gauges - Placement ok? Do I need any additional ones?
Unions (black malleable) - Any reason to not use them or is there a place where I should? (i have a few free ones around)
Am I missing any significant shut off valves?
Any suggestions on improvements or what else I may need would be helpful
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- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
Hopefully others will follow and share their thoughts as well...
skobydog wrote:
Questions:
Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?
commonly enter @ bladder tank location
Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).
?
Initial boiler fast fill/purge - Will Webstone 48615 work in this configuration?
Work, but there are cheaper ways...
Bleeding individual zones - Will the current individual purge valves work?
Yes
Air eliminator valves - One on each return zone and one above air scoop - Enough?
Good. Doing power purge gets the bulk of the air out. You might look at Spirovent Types for micro bubble removal.
Temperature Gauges - Placement ok? Do I need any additional ones?
Your choice...
Unions (black malleable) - Any reason to not use them or is there a place where I should? (i have a few free ones around)
They are excellent...put them anywhere you wouldn't want to use a hacksaw later to take pipe apart.
Am I missing any significant shut off valves?
No
Any suggestions on improvements or what else I may need would be helpful.
Wye strainer before the pumps.
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7496
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Unless you are going to use an auto fill valve, I would skip the pressure reducer as it will make power purging the system or a zone impossible. Water supply connects to the bottom of the air scoop with the expansion tank.skobydog wrote:Questions:
Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?
If all of your zones have zone valves, then, no.skobydog wrote:Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).
That should be enough.skobydog wrote:Air eliminator valves - One on each return zone and one above air scoop - Enough?
You don't "need" any, the tridicator on the boiler is enough. I like to put one in the supply and one in the return were all the zones come back together.skobydog wrote:Temperature Gauges - Placement ok? Do I need any additional ones?
Yes, black iron is probably the best thing to use.skobydog wrote:Unions (black malleable) - Any reason to not use them or is there a place where I should? (i have a few free ones around)
On your drawing, before and after the air scoop, in case you nee to isolate the boiler or a zone. One on the expansion tank, in case you need to replace it.skobydog wrote:Am I missing any significant shut off valves?
-Don
- skobydog
- Member
- Posts: 275
- Joined: Mon. Jun. 10, 2013 9:53 am
- Location: Greenfield MA
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite
Questions:
Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?
commonly enter @ bladder tank location Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).
?
I asked because some circulators have inline check valves.
Initial boiler fast fill/purge - Will Webstone 48615 work in this configuration?
Work, but there are cheaper ways...
Something like this with a hose on the boiler drain? Any suggestions on improvements or what else I may need would be helpful.
Wye strainer before the pumps.
Not sure I understand this.
Water coming in from house through pressure reducing valve - Install on supply or return or does it matter where?
commonly enter @ bladder tank location Do I need a check valve in the system? (Current circulation pump is older 007-F5).
?
I asked because some circulators have inline check valves.
Initial boiler fast fill/purge - Will Webstone 48615 work in this configuration?
Work, but there are cheaper ways...
Something like this with a hose on the boiler drain? Any suggestions on improvements or what else I may need would be helpful.
Wye strainer before the pumps.
Not sure I understand this.
- skobydog
- Member
- Posts: 275
- Joined: Mon. Jun. 10, 2013 9:53 am
- Location: Greenfield MA
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite
StokerDon wrote:
Unless you are going to use an auto fill valve, I would skip the pressure reducer as it will make power purging the system or a zone impossible. Water supply connects to the bottom of the air scoop with the expansion tank.
-Don
Ok, good points, thanksStokerDon wrote:
On your drawing, before and after the air scoop, in case you nee to isolate the boiler or a zone. One on the expansion tank, in case you need to replace it.
-Don
Last edited by skobydog on Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- McGiever
- Member
- Posts: 10130
- Joined: Sun. May. 02, 2010 11:26 pm
- Location: Junction of PA-OH-WV
- Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
- Hand Fed Coal Boiler: BUCKET A DAY water heater
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 414A
- Coal Size/Type: PEA,NUT,STOVE /ANTHRACITE
- Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump and some Solar
There are PRV (pressure reducing valves) w/ a flip handle just for purging and then flip back for normal PRV use.
Wye strainer passes all water through a fine mesh screen (strainer). This collects particals of rust often present in used boilers that commonly sit stored for a time from collecting these particles in a pump rotor or elsewhere.
Wye strainer passes all water through a fine mesh screen (strainer). This collects particals of rust often present in used boilers that commonly sit stored for a time from collecting these particles in a pump rotor or elsewhere.
Last edited by McGiever on Mon. Mar. 13, 2017 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- skobydog
- Member
- Posts: 275
- Joined: Mon. Jun. 10, 2013 9:53 am
- Location: Greenfield MA
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite
ok.....still not sure the purpose of the wye thoughMcGiever wrote:There are PRV (pressure reducing valves) w/ a flip handle just for purging and then flip back for normal PRV use.
- StokerDon
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 7496
- Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 11:17 am
- Location: PA, Southern York County!
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Gentleman Janitor GJ-5, Van Wert VA-600, Axeman Anderson130 X3.
- Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500 reduced down to 3 grates connected to its own plenum
- Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut and whatever will fit through the door on the Harman
- Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood
Your Tee at the expansion tank for the water supply is perfect.
Your idea of bypassing the pressure reducer/fill valve with a single ball valve will work for power purging.
A wye strainer is basically a filter stuck into a "Y" connection. Keeps crap from reaching your pump.
-Don
Your idea of bypassing the pressure reducer/fill valve with a single ball valve will work for power purging.
A wye strainer is basically a filter stuck into a "Y" connection. Keeps crap from reaching your pump.
-Don
- coaledsweat
- Site Moderator
- Posts: 13767
- Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
- Location: Guilford, Connecticut
- Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
- Coal Size/Type: Pea
An end of the wye allows you to remove the screen to clean it.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-0379113-1-LF777SI-Lead-Free ... DQodBnYFKg
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-0379113-1-LF777SI-Lead-Free ... DQodBnYFKg
- Rob R.
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- Location: Chazy, NY
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Jr
The fast fill valve on the Taco and B&G autofill valves I have used has been fine. If you need a more serious power purge, I have also connected a garden hose to a boiler drain in the appropriate location - this gives you instant full-pressure water for purging. If you pipe the system correctly, air removal is only done once.McGiever wrote:There are PRV (pressure reducing valves) w/ a flip handle just for purging and then flip back for normal PRV use.
Wye strainer passes all water through a fine mesh screen (strainer). This collects particals of rust often present in used boilers that commonly sit stored for a time from collecting these particles in a pump rotor or elsewhere.
I have never used a Wye strainer, but I think it is a good idea. At some point we will all be running ECM circulators, and they don't like debris. That brings up a good point - is the plan to use that 007 Taco? If so, you will may get some velocity noise in the system without a pressure differential valve (it allows some of the volume from the pump to return to the boiler, rather than trying to force it through a single zone). I had that issue with my own system, and decided to upgrade to a "smart" circulator. It has performed very well for me.
Grundfos Alpha Installed
- skobydog
- Member
- Posts: 275
- Joined: Mon. Jun. 10, 2013 9:53 am
- Location: Greenfield MA
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
- Coal Size/Type: Nut Anthracite
Got it now, thankscoaledsweat wrote:An end of the wye allows you to remove the screen to clean it.
http://www.supplyhouse.com/Watts-0379113-1-LF777SI-Lead-Free ... DQodBnYFKg
I have a number of heating configurations I want to try but I believe the 007 will probably be an overkill until I'm through burning nut coal upstairs. If this happens I'll probably skip the pressure differential valve and look into a smart pump. Probably better off with a newer pump anyway.Rob R. wrote: That brings up a good point - is the plan to use that 007 Taco? If so, you will may get some velocity noise in the system without a pressure differential valve (it allows some of the volume from the pump to return to the boiler, rather than trying to force it through a single zone). I had that issue with my own system, and decided to upgrade to a "smart" circulator. It has performed very well for me.
Grundfos Alpha Installed