Who was the worst president in your life time

billw said, "There's more than enough blame to go around. Hey, politicians don't look out for the American citizen, they look out for themselves and the lobbyists that paid to put them in office. Both parties do the same thing. Screw all politicians."

billw makes a good point. When we get to fighting over presidents, it mainly serves to distract us from the fact that Congress and the President together are screwing us all. There's nothing to distract the citizens like having a an enemy to fight against, and our two-party system provides everyone with an enemy -- the other party.

Congress has written many good bills that were vetoed by Bush.

If I remember correctly, Bush's vetoes can be counted on less than one hand. I think his first veto was only recently.

Since this an energy related forum my original comment was the "Bush has no energy program". Does anyone disagree?

Yeah,,,, There's no energy like high priced energy!!! Scott

EnergyManager wrote:Since this an energy related forum my original comment was the "Bush has no energy program". Does anyone disagree?

Sure he does & we're all paying the price for the secret deals cooked up by Cheney & the big oil companies behind closed doors.
(Remember the secret energy strategy that this administration is still keeping secret from the Congress?.....Hmmmm, I wonder what they decided?.........All you have to do is look at the price on the pump to answer that question.))

Richard S. wrote:If you check the stance by McCain on it he did support an alternate bill that would have provided the Veterans with X amount of college tuition based on the years of service.

It's an election year Richard. McCain looked so bad failing to vote for the veterans that he had to claim he supported them by backing a very "watered down" bill to save face.

stoker-man wrote:

Congress has written many good bills that were vetoed by Bush.

If I remember correctly, Bush's vetoes can be counted on less than one hand. I think his first veto was only recently.

In fact, he vetoed none while the Republican "Rubber Stamp" Congress was in control. Since the Dems took slim control in 2006, he has vetoed 8 bills & threatened many more. (Not to mention his ignoring of bills he doesn't like through his arrogant "Signing Statements"........A tactic so Un-American that Sen. McCain has publicly pledged never to use them if he is elected President.....an incredible slap in the face to a sitting President of his own party)

EnergyManager wrote:Since this an energy related forum my original comment was the "Bush has no energy program". Does anyone disagree?

Bush inherited the same program we have had since the early '70s, none. Now it's all his fault.

coaledsweat wrote:

EnergyManager wrote:Since this an energy related forum my original comment was the "Bush has no energy program". Does anyone disagree?

Bush inherited the same program we have had since the early '70s, none. Now it's all his fault.

Bush/Cheney met behind closed doors for secret meetings with the oil industry at the beginning of this administration. There, they cooked up a new & quite secret energy program which they still refuse to disclose the agenda of but which I think we all can surmise was great for the oil companies but not so great for the United States. (Don't trust my words, do a Google search on it to see the lengths that this admin. has gone to hide the details)

[quote="Devil5052"Bush/Cheney met behind closed doors for secret meetings with the oil industry at the beginning of this administration.[/quote]

WOW talk about a whopper ! I find it hard to believe that :

1. This statement has any merit what so ever
2. that this is even close to true
3. that only you would know about these "Secret Meetings


I'm gonna go out on a limb here and bet that you also think Bush was behind 9/11 all along and that Bush also caused Hurricane Katrina...

Carter & Clinton = worst

My pet peeve is people who piss and moan about jobs & the economy, when they themselves shipped their dollars & many jobs overseas by buying a foreign car. Where I live, the local long time Ford dealer closed up shop, only to be replaced by a thriving toyota dealership.

Oh, you got to love those people with their foreign cars, 99% have an American flag decal on it, I guess that somehow makes them feel less guilty.

....Not that I'm a big fan of Bush either...

ktm rider wrote:[quote="Devil5052"Bush/Cheney met behind closed doors for secret meetings with the oil industry at the beginning of this administration.

WOW talk about a whopper ! I find it hard to believe that :

1. This statement has any merit what so ever
2. that this is even close to true
3. that only you would know about these "Secret Meetings


I'm gonna go out on a limb here and bet that you also think Bush was behind 9/11 all along and that Bush also caused Hurricane Katrina... [/quote]


I'm not into conspiracies at all. Do a Google search on this administrations secret dealings with the oil companies. It's been in the news for years.

Here's a few links that took me 3 minutes to find::
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20030829.html
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... Task_Force

Quick synopsis from above:

"The National Energy Policy Development Group was a group, created by Executive Order on January 29, 2001, that was chaired by Vice President Richard Cheney. The group, commonly referred to as the "Cheney Energy Task Force," produced a National Energy Policy report in May 20....."

" Initially, the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, tried to make the records of the policy group public. When its legal action failed, the GAO dropped the attempt.

The Department of Justice has four times appealed federal court rulings that the vice president (Dick Cheney) release task force records. That case, in which Cheney claims his office has executive privilege, is now pending before the United States Supreme Court. (See Antonin Scalia.)

Here's a list of who attended these meetings that the public is being kept in the dark about:
The names of participants cited on the lists[4][5] include:

Eli Bebout, "an old friend of Cheney's from Wyoming who serves in the state Senate and owns an oil and drilling company", visited in March 2001.[6]
Red Cavaney, "president of the American Petroleum Institute, also met with Lundquist"[7]
Jack N. Gerard, "then with the National Mining Association, had a meeting with Lundquist and other staffers" in February 2001.[8]
Wayne Gibbens and Alby Modiano, U.S. Oil and Gas Association.[9]
Alan Huffman, "Conoco manager until the 2002 merger with Phillips, confirmed meeting with the task force staff."[10]
Kenneth L. Lay, then head of Enron, "came by for the first of two meetings."[11]
Bob Malone, BP regional president, and Peter Davies, chief economist, and "company employees" Graham Barr and Deb Beaubien.[12]
Steven Miller, Shell Oil chairman, "and two others."[13]
Sir Mark Moody-Stuart, Royal Dutch/Shell Group's chairman.[14]
James J. Rouse, former Exxon vice president. In 2005 Rouse "denied the meeting took place."[15] In 2007, Rouse was revealed to be "One of the first visitors, on Feb. 14, [2001] ... then vice president of Exxon Mobil and a major donor to the Bush inauguration".[16]
J. Robinson West, "chairman of the Washington-based consulting firm PFC Energy and an old friend of Cheney's" met with Cheney.[17]
Daniel Yergin, "chairman of Cambridge Energy Research Associates and author of The Prize, a history of the oil industry", met with Cheney and Lundquist.[18]
"One advocacy group that visited



Looks like a "Who's Who" of the highest paid, "Wartime Profiteering" group of thugs to me!!




I don't make things up.......I follow the news!

Richard S. wrote:

Devil5052 wrote:It's an election year Richard. McCain looked so bad failing to vote for the veterans that he had to claim he supported them by backing a very "watered down" bill to save face.

It's not watered down, they like anyone else should be rewarded on what they have produced. They are after all volunteers, if they don't agree with the terms they could always choose not to join.

Ummm...McCain did the right thing.

Richard S., you're right.

It should be based on time served and how honorably you served. The education benefits that active duty servicemembers and veterans recieve today are good. Could it use some tweaking...sure...what doesn't need tweaking? However, it should take effort from the servicemember to recieve an education and education benefits. It's not hard, it does take time, and naturally...there's paperwork to fill out. I know several people that have earned advanced degrees while serving on active duty at an extremely low cost to them. They didn't do it in 4 to 6 years like you would do traditionally as a full time student. It took my one friend over 15 years while serving on active duty to work his way to a Master's in Business. It's not easy to do, it depends on your job in the service, and what branch of service you are in. What you don't work for while you are on active duty, there are things you can pursue when you get out.
MGIB is phenomonal compared to what used to be VEAP but there are steps you must take while you are on active duty.
Also, the VA can help with such things as service related disabilities making you eligible for VocRehab. (Not a shabby program at all)
Overall, it is my honest opinion that service related education benefits should not be the same for someone who has spent 4 years on active duty serving in an office in Hawaii compared to someone who has spent 20 years of service all over the world including war zones. It should, without a doubt, be something you earn.
Education benefits have always been used as a recruiting device...well...as long as I can remember.
As long as I can remember, they didn't recruit kids just to give them a college education. They recruit in order to get them to volunteer and then the active side's goal is to keep them as long as possible. "Move Up NOT OUT!"
Why would anyone want to Move UP if they can Get OUT, as quickly as possible, and get serious education benefits for a short time served in the military???
I've served with way too many kids who just joined the service to get the college education benefits.

Anyone against McCain this year will smear him for his stance on this issue. I catergorize those people into three catergories.
1) The people that normally stand there with their hands out waiting for someone to give them something that they think they deserve or earned. Normally those are the same people that won't move to take care of or do something for themselves. Always looking for a gift while never willing to give.
2) Those that don't know what is available to Active Duty military and Vets right now because they didn't do their homework or never served and basically don't have the knowledge.
3) Anyone who believes that McCain is another Bush and are looking for anything and everything to smear him with.

As for the question pertaining to this thread...I don't have one in my life time.
My problems were caused by myself and my own doings...not any of the Presidents of the United States... and NONE of the candidates are going to fixed my problems...I have to fix them myself.